Honest Advice please

[emz771]

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

Sorry OP, it's definitely one sided. Loans to his family - gifts to yours?

It is very kind and generous of you to support your sister's children, but you do also need to be careful that it doesn't breed entitlement and expectation. They should learn the value of money, and gain a work ethic to support themselves in the future, rather than expecting rich Aunty and Uncle to pick up all their expenses.

It won't do them any favours in the long run - for example where is the motivation to work hard and build your own career if you know you can work PT and get a property and lifestyle provided for you. It may not happen - but it clearly has influenced your sister, and her attitude could easily be passed down to her children.

I am sure the children don’t think heir aunt and uncle will provide them with income for their whole lives.

The girl wants to be a vet, she is obviously doing well in school and is prepared to work hard.

Lots of children grow up with wealthy parents and other relatives and go on to forge careers for themselves.

I do think the parents need to step up a bit, but it’s lovely to pay university fees.

Ok course everybody loves their children - that’s why we all do what we can.

Those have proven some very expensive steaks for them . But seriously, I'm glad you managed to sort it out amicably.

But people are right, she does need to stand on her own two feet more, and get a better paying job. It feels like she knows either you or this partner will subsidise her and it may not always be the case that you'll be able to. You're obviously very wealthy but something could happen that means you can't (or don't want to) subsidise her all her life - eg what if you or one of your children had a rare disease that needed hundreds of thousands of pounds of treatment? What if you / children had an accident and couldn't work?

She is an able bodied, healthy person, you don't want to basically be responsible for propping her up for the rest of her life but as the years go by she becomes less and less employable in a new role.

Something to think about.

OP you sound lovely but this thread is like another world!

I've worked ft since my divorce when kids were 6 and 4, my kids have zero chance of not having to take a student loan if they go to university, I don't know if I've ever even met anyone who didn't have to do this.

How the other half live indeed.

As a therapist your family dynamics sound fascinating!

Do they? I think we are pretty mundane.

Well you do come across as being in a bit of a rich person bubble emz771, but I don’t think there’s anything so inexplicable about what you’re doing (especially since we only have a fraction of the picture).

I went to an independent school on a scholarship and it was really weird to be surrounded by people who didn’t worry about money. It was a bubble of comfort and safety that of course I envied but I am not bitter about. They were delightful friends and good people, and I’m sure they all had their own stresses and struggles, just not financial ones.

The thing is, I don’t know what pp think money is for, except to make things easier for yourself and your family. You can’t take it with you, so why make each generation struggle anew?

Either this is made up or you are all totally precious! God forbid sissy wissy has to work or support herself. God forbid her spoilt teenagers have to take a student loan. What a bunch of useless twats they all are/will be.

😂😂😂 that’s awful attaching children you have never even met because their aunt wants to pay their university fees. Mumsnet never disappoints.

That’s actually really rude and a horrible way to speak about children. I’ve been really respectful on here - but that’s not on.

Emz ignore. THere is always at least one.

Thank you.

Your husband is amazingly understanding.. as are you and a lovely supportive sibling! I can see why he flipped out over the steaks. Great that it’s sorted now, but maybe start to think about loosening those apron strings a little- she’s 42, her kids are teenagers and the divorce was a few years past! It is better for her if you are safety net, not her default provider...

Can my family come and stay in one of your properties please? As you seem exceptionally generous, I'm sure you won't complain if I struggle paying rent whilst my disabled son attends a local authority special school ....

Nothing is wrong with it - but veterinary school is circa 50k. Why would I want my niece to start life with that sort of debt if she didn’t have to? I love her.

But that's life. Things don't come for free. A student loan debt is the most benign debt you can possibly imagine - it's essentially a graduate tax. It won't count except as slightly reduced income when applying for a mortgage, for example, it's not seen as a debt in the same way as a credit card would be.

I don't think you're doing your sister any favours really. £30k is a nice wage, she should be expected to maximise her hours to support her children. Reduced rent should go alongside her earning as much as she can, so she can save, not taking advantage of it to work less!

I quite agree things don’t come for free - but I see nothing wrong in helping children.

I agree with @JudyGemstone I think your family dynamics must be really interesting. I understand it seems mundane to you, but hopefully this thread will have shown you that what you're doing is actually very very unusual. And, whilst it's lovely that you can, you're not obliged to. It might be worth exploring where the guilt/responsibility/obligation comes from? My family is very enmeshed and my mum constantly tries to equalise thinks, by redistributing where she thinks there are inequalities, but she never has the full picture and I think it backfires sometimes breeding resentment. It's very freeing to realise that a lot of the guilt is misplaced.

Why are people so against op paying for university fees. If she can easily afford to put six children through university, why does this annoy you all so much?

My parent supported me until I finished university at 22. My uncle and aunt supported my cousins (their nieces) because the girls parents weren’t in a position to do so. We are all functioning adults now who pay our own way. Surely this is pretty normal in most families?

I don’t have children and will help my sisters family when the times comes,

I think if you have 50k to spend on your niece, it would be better for her to have it as a house deposit after she graduates, rather than pay university fees. Or use some to help towards living costs e.g. rent, or books. To me, spending it on fees is a total waste of money, it won't change her quality of life in any really meaningful way.

Where the hell does your sister live that she is living in an £800k property and paying £160 a month council tax?!

I would rather not say the exact town - but a very popular little Suburban town about 20 minutes direct train to central London. 800k doesn’t buy you much here - 3 bed with a driveway and average back garden.

OP, you didn't answer my earlier question: When I asked about how your sister sees you - does she seem appreciative of all the help, or does she take it for granted? You said that you feel guilty because you are financially better off, and I acknowledged that I understood that, but does she assume you will always pick up the bills? Does she acknowledge and seem grateful for all you do, or does she just assume it as her right?

Sorry I missed that - no she is very appreciative - she really is. There may be a small degree of thinking we might sometimes help.

I would rather not say the exact town - but a very popular little Suburban town about 20 minutes direct train to central London. 800k doesn’t buy you much here - 3 bed with a driveway and average back garden

I live in a 2 bedroom terrace worth about £75k in a shitty industrial town and pay £110 a month council tax.

Is she claiming single person's discount or council tax benefits dishonestly?

No she isn’t claiming. Not anything other than CB.