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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Honest Advice please

523 replies

emz771 · 08/05/2020 17:53

I have read MN for years - but never joined. I think sometimes it's good to get some third party advice so please help ladies.

Ok so just over 3 years ago my sister split with her husband. He wasn't very good with money and as such she didn't come out with anything. My husband is in property and said she could live in a property we have. We said (and the wording is important) it's yours rent free for as long as you need it.

Anyway about 18 months ago my sister met a man who is a really nice guy. He is great with her kids, is good company, and we often have a pub lunch with the kids or a dog walk on a Sunday and he treats her and the kids really well.

However about 8 months ago he moved in with my sister and my husband presumed that when he moved in we would get some offer of rent. To put into context he is an engineer for BT and does quite a bit of overtime and we understand he is on about 45k a year. My sister works part time as a secretary and earns about 16k a year. So they are a 60K household with no rent/mortgage.

Now it's been griping at my husband for some time - and yesterday he actually got really annoyed. This is going to sound silly but because he is still working my husband asked him to pick up some steaks from a farm shop he passes and leave on our door step. He did - but then my sister messaged me that night and said the steaks were £32. My husband who is a calm man lost it - and claimed he lives in our property that we could rent for £1500 a month and can't shout us a few steaks.

Now I need to say my sister is my best friend in the entire world - and it's not the money with my husband but the fact he feels this guy is taking the mick. The house would rent for £1500 - but I know my husband would let them have it for £800.

Now is it our fault with the wording "have it as long as you want" even though that was when she was a single parent living on a part time wage.I don't want it to affect my relationship with my husband.

Let me know - am I being a cow?

OP posts:
Itwasntme1 · 08/05/2020 23:16

If £1000 a month is not a big deal to you then I totally understand you giving this very generous gift to your struggling sister.

But this man clearly has never acknowledged that he too is getting a hugely generous gift, I assume he has never even said thank you.

Have an honest chat with your sister. Explain this gift was meant for her, and you feel her boyfriend is now benefiting from living rent free at your expense and that makes you uncomfortable. Say you still want to help out, and are willing to offer a significant reduction in the rent, but you think that because the living arrangements have now changed, you feel you need to charge rent.

Any he with any decency and self respect will be embarrassed that their boyfriend has freeloaded for so long, and will agree to pay rent.

vixxo · 08/05/2020 23:20

I would be absolutely FUMING if I were your husband. It's not his sister.

LuminousAmber · 08/05/2020 23:21

Hmm.

If i scaled it down to an amount that would make literally no difference to my life (which would be a lot lower than £1000!) then to be honest I can’t imagine chasing a relative for it.

I could, if it was owed. I’d be entitled to. I wouldn’t though, especially if that amount would make a difference to the relative as it was a much higher % of their income compared to mine.

You’re still not bu...but in your shoes I’d get no joy from that money and would be having discussions with my husband not my sister 🤷🏻‍♀️

2bazookas · 08/05/2020 23:21

I’ve missed off loads of into - my sister has had it rough. Both her kids have had to change schools in the last 6 months as she could no longer afford the fees and make new friends - which isn’t easy to do at 12 and 14.

3 years ago when their dad left, they were still in primary school. So if mother washard up she could just have sent them to state secondary school in the first place. Time she started living within her means.

Josette77 · 08/05/2020 23:33

I'd be livid if I was your DH and it sounds to be like you are making unilateral decisions for the both of you. First of all this doesn't involve your mum. Secondly it doesn't matter how much money you have. And most importantly your dh appears to be getting no say. Your sister is an adult. Babying her is not the answer. Does she work? Get child support? She can pay rent.

RandomLondoner · 08/05/2020 23:35

I think the sister and her new boyfriend have possibly done nothing wrong.

The steaks and the the rent are two different things. It wouldn't occur to me to link them whichever side of a situation like this I was on. Perfectly reasonable to be paid for shopping.

It seems you husband is seething because someone hasn't done something no-one has asked them to do.

It is odd that the boyfriend hasn't brought up the subject of rent, but he's moved into someone else house, he's not receiving a favour from you, he's receiving it from the sister, if he's paying no rent. How she gets rent-free use of the house is between her and someone else.

I think OP husband is the one mainly in the wrong, first for making a vague promise to the sister (it's worded that she can live rent-free for life) and second for not saying something when he wasn't getting what he expected or wanted.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 08/05/2020 23:46

she and my parents know that we don’t need the rent

Neither do they need the money, though, on £60K. If I got a bank loan, Barclays certainly ‘don’t need the money’ – doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have to pay it back.

I wish I could take my mum out the picture!

If it’s your DH’s business and all or partly in his name, then you can take her out of the picture (I don’t see why she gets a say anyway, though) – she isn’t his mum, so she’s not really in the picture in the first place.

If it was up to me I wouldn’t ever ask for it - my hubby just feels like he is being taken the Mick out of.

That’s because he royally is. He is sooo far from unreasonable. Asking for the steak money really did seal the deal for outrageous CFery, though. Even if you had a £50m fortune and your sister and her boyfriend are only comfortably off on £60K a year, you wouldn’t give her a Christmas present and not expect anything at all back, just because you need the monetary value less than they do, when it’s still very easily affordable for them.

Just be aware though, that this might well signal the end of their relationship – whether he’s a freeloader who resents having to pay his way or she sees him as a barrier to her continuing to get a free house. It will be absolute zero percent your fault, but be prepared to be fully blamed for it.

runninguphills · 08/05/2020 23:50

You have to settle on a rent that is reasonable. Otherwise, the resentment will eat away and tarnish the relationship that you both have with your sister.

Helping your sister out with a decent rental discount is a good thing. Allowing her to live rent free at the cost of thousands per year whispers "doormat" to me.

You have to sort it out otherwise your husband will become unhinged with resentment and anger.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 09/05/2020 00:05

The steaks and the the rent are two different things. It wouldn't occur to me to link them whichever side of a situation like this I was on. Perfectly reasonable to be paid for shopping.

If it really wouldn't occur to you to link them, then that would simply underline how little you respected them and how very much you took them thoroughly for advantage. If somebody has done you a colossal favour, what kind of half-reasonable adult wouldn't instinctively do them a tiny little favour back without thinking twice about it?

It seems you husband is seething because someone hasn't done something no-one has asked them to do.

We're not talking about 4yo children who need to be taught that other people matter too and aren't just there for the sole purpose of making their own lives nicer. Excepting severe learning difficulties, you really shouldn't have to ask an adult to act basically like an adult.

BackseatCookers · 09/05/2020 00:11

So, so much everything @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll just said. 100%.

Coyoacan · 09/05/2020 00:29

You have to settle on a rent that is reasonable. Otherwise, the resentment will eat away and tarnish the relationship that you both have with your sister

Yes this. It is going to be a difficult conversation but it is better to say things before you get angry, rather than now that your husband is fed up or later when you are also totally fed up.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 09/05/2020 00:52

You have to settle on a rent that is reasonable. Otherwise, the resentment will eat away and tarnish the relationship that you both have with your sister

The big problem is that the sister has already decided herself that £32 (not £32K, not a typo) is too high a rent for three entire years....

Waveysnail · 09/05/2020 00:56

You said you dont need the money and would make no difference. Your doing a lovely thing for your sister. Even with him moving in I wouldnt ask rent if you dont need it. Why would you? Do you maintain the house and decorate it? Service gas etc.

You have a lovely relationship then why risk it woth your sister for sake of money you dont need.

Waveysnail · 09/05/2020 00:59

Would you sister be able to part buy the house from you? Could you agree something like that so 'rent' is giving your sister a bit more security if she part owns the house.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 09/05/2020 01:37

Your doing a lovely thing for your sister. Even with him moving in I wouldnt ask rent if you dont need it. Why would you?
You have a lovely relationship then why risk it woth your sister for sake of money you dont need.

I think that, in the eyes of OP's husband and everybody else with any basic sense of human decency the sister asking for the relatively insignificant amount (0.064%) back for the steaks was where 'doing a lovely thing' was turned into 'being treated as a complete doormat'. Why not ask why the sister is equally risking the killing of the golden goose relationship for the sake of money that she and her boyfriend clearly cannot genuinely need?

foosy · 09/05/2020 01:44

Sounds like your husband has been more than reasonable. He has gone above and beyond to help your family out and is entitled to some appreciation. It's time to let him rent out that house for full value and let him look after his own family!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 09/05/2020 01:47

My anally overly-precise given percentage is actually too high, based on the amount of £50K for three years, when it would more correctly be £54K Grin

TheMotherofAllDilemmas · 09/05/2020 02:02

I think you should start asking for rent, because if you don’t your husband will end up resenting them so much his relationship with your family will be damaged.

Mirand17bik · 09/05/2020 02:11

The legal position is that you granted your sister a licence (that is a permission to stay at your property). That licence did not extend to her current partner. You are at liberty to withdraw your permission for your sister to stay at your property on a rent free basis at any time. However as other members have said, it is best to make it clear to your sister that her situation has now changed. I suggest that you invite her and her partner to enter into an Assured Shorthold tenancy agreement with you and your husband. This puts things on a proper contractual footing.

FiveOutOfFiveGoldblums · 09/05/2020 02:17

emz
sorry to sound awful but - what would happen then if your sister died suddenly and her cocklodger refused to leave your property or decided to damage it when asked to leave?

Ernieshere · 09/05/2020 02:28

The sister might be taking money for half the 'rent' from her partner and pocketing it.

He might be innocently handing money over every month Confused

TehBewilderness · 09/05/2020 03:16

If you expect people to gift you the shopping you ask them to do you should say so up front.
These kinds of expectations of others are unrealistic. They can't read your mind and know what you want.
Talk to them.

Easilyanxious · 09/05/2020 03:16

To be fair I don't blame your husband about the steaks as you have been doing them a huge favour and letting them live rent free if that was me I wouldn't of dreamed of asking for money for the steaks
My mum stayed with us whilst waiting in her new house I didn't obviously charge rent but she used to pick up shopping and bits to help out and show she appreciated us putting them up for Free
Def time to talk to your sister about rent wether you need the money or not it's still your property and for you to decide , they don't have to stay there after all

Soon2BeMumof3 · 09/05/2020 03:29

@Waveysnail well now I've heard everything. You want OP to further complicate this family financial entanglement by transferring part ownership to her freeloading sister?

OP, your sister has been thoughtless in not offering you rent. Her partner is absolutely taking the piss and any self respecting adult would have offered you rent by now, not expect his new girlfriend's sister and brother in law to provide him with free housing.

Just a guess, but do the rest of the family see you as 'wealthy relations'? Sometimes generous gestures become expectations if they all assume you're swimming in your money pit like scrounge mcduck.

Call your sister, say that you've been waiting for a good time to bring up an awkward subject, but you want to revise the situation with the house now that her partner is there. You're so glad she's getting back on her feet, you really like her partner etc etc etc social niceties. And then say you're happy to continue the arrangement with discounted rent or give her a generous amount of time (2 or 3 months) to find somewhere else to rent with the partner. Say a specific amount. Tell her you'll be sending a tenancy agreement just so you're all clear and to avoid future chats about money.

ChikiTIKI · 09/05/2020 03:42

Is it worth a possible fall out when you don't need the money?

I think it depends on what their relationship is like as to whether she can afford to pay rent. Do they have joint finances? Of not, he might expect her to pay half the rent or more which she might not be able to afford.