Neighbours son with autism and all-day verbal stimming.

[MonkeyJunk]

I know I am being unreasonable, but I am also slightly losing my mind.

Our neighbour has a son who has autism and who screams as part of this (I believe). He spends each day from around 7am until darkness in the garden doing this, and I think he does it when he is inside as well. Unfortunately any movement (us, children, animals) seems to be a trigger.

He does also do this in the house but because of the way our houses are designed and because they are the end of terrace house we cannot hear it (and nobody else can).

I get it is really, really, really shit for her, but it is now becoming relentless. All day, every day when the weather is good - it means our home is not very peaceful at all and we cannot enjoy our garden at all (he seems to go into a much more shrill scream when there's movement in our garden). We've stopped feeding the birds and are letting the dog out the front yard when it needs to go out.

I know lockdown is tough, and the mother must be finding it very difficult, but it's having a huge impact on us and our family life - particularly not being able to enjoy our garden, being woken up and the kids struggling to sleep at night (we've now moved them into the front bedroom to try and minimise this).

WIBU to ask if her son can please be inside by seven pm and for some hours during the day so we can go into and enjoy our garden?

I think you need to add something like "We were wondering if we could agree a timetable, so that we aren't out in the garden at the same time to reduce distress. Currently we've not been able to use the back garden at all, and would love to have some time in the day when we know we can come outside without upsetting you.".

Our son has severe autism and we are feeling so bad about the degree of verbal stimming at the moment! It is a tough time to parent a child with significant additional needs so thank you for keeping this in mind.

Our son also has very complex medical needs so is shielded but I got an email from the National Autistic Society saying that even during lockdown it is acceptable to take your autistic child out for more than one walk a day. May be worth making mum aware if he is an out and about child?

As others have said she may not realise that you can’t hear him when inside so this might be worth gently pointing out too.

Good luck!

Please don’t frame your letter as though you want to be kind and it’s all for their benefit. I have a similar child and I HATE it when people do that. You don’t want their child to play in his garden when you are using yours because his disability makes him impinge on your peace. There ISN’T a nice way of saying that and frankly if you lured me outside to sip gin with you in the guise of friendship and then slipped that into the “chat” I would be distraught.
“Please can you be a bit quieter in the evening when we are trying to put the children to bed“ is a reasonable ask, but they could easily not oblige. “Please can you keep your child out of sight/hearing when I’m outside”, not reasonable at all.

I’m sorry they’re harder neighbours than you were expecting. I always remember long long ago on the SN board, a Mum describing being asked to keep her child in while the neighbours did viewings of their house to sell. It was one of the shittiest things I’ve ever read. Not everyone gets an even crack at life. Some people deal with so much more for themselves and their children. Choose to be one of the ones who make it easier.

You sound lovely OP and not unreasonable. Hope the talk goes well.

The neighbours on that other thread sound awful and the opposite of you!

My son isn't in school either, they've rang 3 times to ask how we're getting on, with the option of sending him in for a few hours (but with the impression only if I absolutely must).

I still think 1forsorrow's approach is the best tack. I really hope you reach an amicable solution for all OP.

@Noconceptofnormal

My son verbally stims very loudly regardless of where he is actually including at school. Developmentally our child is a few months old, there is no stopping him! Please consider that you don’t know this child, you don’t know what school is like for them. Stimming tends to increase with anxiety, the whole world is anxious right now, add in to this that routines and everything have been removed overnight and it’s not really surprising that stimming is through the roof.

I'm the parent of a child with severe ASD who stims.

Your neighbours child being out in the garden all day doing this is not okay.He needs to be doing other stuff and it sounds as mum and/or dad is taking the path of least resistance.Before any jumps down my throat I know exactly what it's like to be having a truly shit time with a child with sensory needs and understand how stressful lockdown is in this situation because that's my life at the moment but I would not expect my neighbours children not to use their garden too.

He'll likely have a EHCP.If his needs are that severe that he stims all day then he needs additional help;my sons SENCO calls me twice a week to provide support.

You need to bite the bullet and talk to your neighbour because YANBU here.

Try "I know your son uses the garden to let off steam and that is being in our garden can be distressing for you son but my children and the dog would like to use the garden too,could we possibly come to agreement where we use our garden for part of the day and you use your garden for part of the day please?"

@MonkeyJunk. My son has severe autism and I can sympathise with your position. Your letter sounds great, I would have appreciated that if I had new neighbours, it sounds like a good icebreaker. The mum is probably extremely tired and stressed. It could be that her only rest was while her son was at school. She may be really worried about you coming round or sending someone as in the other post. I think I'd be glad of such a lovely letter and opening to a discussion. There could be other things that come up as he gets older or other behaviour which you haven't seen yet.

The child may not be able to go out for exercise at the mo even if not shielding, we can't take my son out as he doesn't understand the social distancing measures. Our other fear isn't that it has been reported that a high number of people with autism have been issued with dnr's. I've had to fill in a communication passport Incase my son gets it and have stated "parents have not signed a DNA". Hospitals are a nightmare anyway without this sort of added fear, so we've all not left the house to try to ensure none of us get it and then infect our son. She could be doing the same.

Meeting each other is lovely and the offer of the trampoline is a great idea, it could take time to get anything from it with the child (just be aware). Many kids on the spectrum have sensory needs and bouncing can really help.

Just a thought if the noise gets worse when you're in the garden and he is nonverbal or has little verbal communication, he couldn't be trying to communicate with you. If I'd been on my own in the garden all day for weeks on end, I'd take the opportunity too. I'm just wondering if you ever acknowledged him? Of course this could go the other way, its just a thought.

If you're children play with bubbles that could be a good opening for introductions, these are often used with Sen kids and a lot (not all) like them. I'm just thinking if things don't go very well it could be quite calming for you all.

I really hope it goes well for you, if it doesn't please do give the mum the benefit of doubt and try again. We spend most of our lives battling and usually expect confrontation so she maybe on her guard. You wouldn't believe the relief nad appreciation tho when people are just normal and nice.

Good luck x

#DNR not DNA

We have a similar problem OP. Neighbours SEN child screams all day everyday and bangs continuously on our adjoining wall. We have spoken to parents who got very defensive, spoken to their land lord who cant do anything about it and even the council as it's all day every day and even through the night. It grinds you down. What makes it worse is I'm actually qualified in working with SEN children and child psychology and feel with a proper conversation I could probably have helped. Hey ho.

that message sounds too pleasing and apologetic. actually it even sounds passive aggressive. what exactly are you upsetting her for that you need to know if you can help her?
you haven't addressed or made mention of the issue.

"the diagnosis is not a free for all to just let the child do what they want, the parents aren't doing that child any favours by allowing this."

They are stimming to fulfil a need not doing because they want to. It's not naughty behaviour. It is reasonable to ask the parents to take them inside sometimes but treating it as bad behaviour isn't. Whatever you think you know about ASD you don't.

I have an autistic son, to be honest he seems to be less autistic over time, And we don’t have stimming any more. But he was bad in the past.

Anyway I’d be heartbroken getting a note through the door, please just knock on the door and ask what you can do to help him feel less stressed if you’re all in the garden. Maybe you can timetable your time outside or agree when to go outside. She will be having such a tough time doing lockdown with a child who seems to be really quite autistic.

Wondering if some kind of background noise/music might mask the sounds of you moving about in the garden and/or mask the sounds that this boy tends to make.

I think you sound lovely OP and I sympathise with both you and your neighbours. What you are suggesting is in no way unreasonable. Id just be a little more direct in suggesting a time you can use your garden

We restricted our dd to one hour at a time when we were having particular issues when she was younger. She's still autistic, that doesn't magically disappear but she gained a lot of "function" and now is mostly an independent adult. I approached my neighbours not the other way around and told them to let me know if she was ruining their lives - they were lovely and always praised the incessant violin practice al fresco (she is very good but still noisy!) Do speak nicely to the mother, ask if there's anything she needs - some autistic kids like to play with other kids too and struggle to make friends, it's a good give and take situation. I found my dd was worse when she was stressed and bored, both are likely at the moment, even non verbal kids can have excellent understanding of things like the news.

^“Please can you keep your child out of sight/hearing when I’m outside”, not reasonable at all^

This.
I am happily child-free and love my peace and quiet.
I'm lucky we don't have kids playing out where i am.
According to MN and other people, i should 'suck it up' when i get irritated by the noise kids make and how their presence impacts on my enjoyment of the same space.......
this kid isn't deliberately behaving like this and his parents aren't neglecting him.
They have to deal with this even when you can't see/hear it.

So unless your own kids are going to keep their mouths shut to stop 'ruining' it for those who'd rather not hear them....yab extremely unreasonable.

You sound absolutely lovely op. The only cririsicm is.... I'd be direct. But kind. My friend is very 'pc' and in the past she wanted to raise something with me about our kids behaviour when they were together (I actually had the same concerns) but the way she was wording it was so obviously a buttered up veiled version that I actually felt really patronised and confused in a way. I ended up paranoid for ages afterwards thinking what did she mean. What was she getting act? In the end I told her that I felt her son was a bad influence on mine. Then said 'I'm guessing you feel vice versa?' she was so relieved. But the big difference is we are friends. So anyway.... I'd knock on her door (letter is too frilly and paranoia inducing) words along the line of 'hiya. I AM sorry to disturb you (name). I'll just gone straight out with- I know you can't help it but with (name) being vocal in the garden it's a bit tricky to get the kids asleep in the evening and get a bit of garden time. I don't know whether (name) would feel better if our garden was quieter when he went out? I was just wondering if you fancied being Saddos and organising a little rota of times for our kids to have a go in the garden? How do you feel about it? ' open up the dialogue. I wouldn't see this as an attack.

Meant to read 'I'll just come straight out with it'

Please don’t frame your letter as though you want to be kind and it’s all for their benefit. I have a similar child and I HATE it when people do that. You don’t want their child to play in his garden when you are using yours because his disability makes him impinge on your peace. There ISN’T a nice way of saying that and frankly if you lured me outside to sip gin with you in the guise of friendship and then slipped that into the “chat” I would be distraught.

Totally agree. I'd invite the mum neighbour for a coffee and gently raise it verbally, rather than express concern in writing. It could be quite hurtful if she realises you are being somewhat insincere.

Awful for everyone.

I think the letter needs to be more precise than that.

You have been avoiding using the garden for the dog or yourselves as you have noticed your presence seems to upset her ds and his stimming sounds louder on the few occasions when you have gone outside. You don’t want to distress her ds. However, you would also like to be use your garden. You would really like the opportunity to discuss a way you could all work better together as neighbours to ensure everyone’s needs are met. Ask what you could do to help with this as you do intend to use your garden from tomorrow.

This sounds awful op for you as well as her ds and you do definitely need to push back.

I can see it from both angles, I understand that the noise is a nuisance and it must be awful to not be able to relax and enjoy your garden.
Although the idea of a schedule for using your gardens sounds reasonable in theory - have you ever tried to get an autistic child to do something they don’t want to do? If he wants to use the garden but can’t it will cause a huge meltdown, if the garden helps him self regulate then I think it’s perfectly reasonable for him to use it. Him not being able to do something which he is now in a routine of doing will cause him more distress and could cause the stimming to increase.

Hi OP,

You said about the fencing, check out local contractors. We are getting ours done, (large juvenile dog that has managed to get out a few times) the contractor is doing work still. Social distance will be observed while he does the fencing.
And you sound like a great neighbour, hope it goes well.

Good wording above from @mummyoflittledragons.

I’d be heartbroken getting a note through the door, please just knock on the door and ask what you can do to help

But for some people that might be putting them on the spot? There's no 100% right way but I would go with the note.