To think my boss can't force me to send my kids to school

[Turquoisetamborine]

Both myself and H are in vulnerable groups. H especially as he has stage 4 kidney failure. He has been going to work in a separate entrance to his enclosed office and not coming into contact with anyone. He does need to attend his office though as he's a key worker.

We have two kids of just turned 5 and 12.

I work three days a week from home for a public office so no chance of being furloughed. My boss has informed me that if I don't put my kids in school she will place me on unpaid leave.

I'd been managing at home to do work before they got up and during the day when they watched telly. Not to my full capacity admittedly but doing my bit and we have barely any work to do at the moment anyway. We are doing non essential tasks like learning and reading guidance.

She's saying it isn't good enough that I'm trying to do both and she's paying me to sit at home and do nothing. She's not paying me actually as we are civil servants and I am quite willing to work from home on jobs which don't require a huge amount of concentration. I can do my normal job no problem as I've been doing it so long and know it inside out. Now she's given me a choice, go on unpaid leave or put kids in school.

Headteacher says kids should be at home unless parents are actually out at work such as teachers, nurses etc. and that they should only be coming to school due to an emergency situation.

Can she force me to send them when I'm at home willing to care for them?

Turquoisetamborine
Speak to your union, can I ask what sector you work in if you are a civil servant? My husband is also a civil servant and is shielding and working from home. If you are vulnerable have you receive a shielding letter?

But I also think it would’ve have been a lot easier for if you’d just said yes to doing the jobs you’d been delegated, ie the course. It’s the objections and excuses for not being able to do it that have made her question how effectively you can do your job. There’s always the suspicion that those at home aren’t doing anything. Just look willing, do your best, start the course and give it a go and don’t object to things because you’ll inflict more and more scrutiny on yourself.

Yes. I think your manager is being totally unreasonable to find something pointless just to keep you busy. BUT it would have been far better if you'd responded positively (even if you knew it wasn't going to work for you) and waited until further along the line to flag up problems.
If you manager is one of those who hates people working from home, you fed into that perfectly by 'making excuses' and bringing your kids into it. Sadly that will have made them all the more determined to make life difficult.

Obviously their attitude is entirely unreasonable, but you need to play the game, unless you're prepared to go higher. And if you do go higher, try not to sound whingy or entitled. Stick to the fact that you're completing your normal work, being asked to do something entirely unnecessary simply to fill time, or to lose pay, because your children don't qualify to be in school.

I haven't read the full thread, but she is being unreasonable. These are unprecendented times and the civil service rules can be generous with options such as paid special leave etc. Hopefully you have got the union involved. It's ironic that the government is paying other people to stay at home with their kids, but not allowing the same facility to its own employees!

@Artesia
Hold on- am I reading right from other posters that civil service employees in some departments are being given extra, fully paid leave to look after kids??? If that’s the case I’m genuinely shocked. People in the private sector are having to cut their hours, juggle home and work responsibilities, work late into the night, or use all their holiday to look after kids, but public sector are given extra paid leave to do it, at the expense of tax payers, at a time of national crisis and possibly the biggest recession in living memory????*
Stop being so dramatic. It's not so different from being furloughed is it?

It's no good telling op to 'put her child/ren in school' as an integral part of the problem is she doesn't want to do that as both her, and her husband in particular are deemed vulnerable
Noone is telling her she has toput the kids in school. What she's been told is find ways to work on the dissertation, be it eveninfs and weeksends or take parental leave, both reasonable expectations.

Posters are missing the point that civil servants/nhs staff are all key workers because all could be asked to take on different duties to normal roles to support the Covid19 crisis. People have been threatened to be sacked for not doing so. It's not comparable to the private sector.

On the other hand, their job will much more secure than anyone working in the private sector on furlough at the moment. Again, you can't expect to have your cake and eating it.

You need to separate opinion from fact. Your Union should know, and as they don't they need to find out. However, it is pretty clear to me that your domestic arrangement are none of her business. She can make reasonably expectations about the work you do and you would do well not to bring your family into it as an excuse for potentially not doing them. You might be able to do that with a supportive friendly boss, but not with one like her. The pertinent point appears to be that she expects you to take a professional online qualification in a shorter space of time than is required whilst you are also doing some (albeit not the usual amount of) ordinary work. That seems unreasonable. You haven't explained what sort of qualification it is, which is understandable, but it does make it hard to judge whether you could actually try a bit harder to meet reasonable targets. Presumably she doesn't run the course so she will have no idea whether you are doing your course work during working hours or at evenings and weekends.

@Artesia cripes don't look up sick pay, or any other of the benefits otherwise you might well have a breakdown.

The employer has been perfectly reasonable

You think its perfectly reasonable to expect one member of the team to complete a year long qualification on their own in a few weeks whilst the rest of the team are not required to do this?

Remember the OP is completing her work, they simply don't have a great deal to do. These are not normal times and its not an appropriate time to invent busy work to punish staff randomly where there isn't enough to do.

If it makes you feel any better though, those terms and conditions will be heavily eroded along with redundancies, the public sector isn't immune. Personally I would be doing everything I could to be busy, and not look like I can be cut from the block at no great loss.

Hopefully you have got the union involved. It's ironic that the government is paying other people to stay at home with their kids, but not allowing the same facility to its own employees!.

But it is. Those who are childfree get to pick up the slack for the same amount of money each month, I don't think it's just parents that are being shafted is it.

It's not comparable to the private sector

Well actually plenty of private sector contracts include redeployment to other tasks when needed however that isn't the salient comparison.

The comparison is the treatment of the OP compared to other members of the same team when all are completing the limited work available.

I’d also speculate that doing ongoing development suggests that your boss isn’t about to fire you.

From the face of it and without reading all the pages, it does seem the OP is within her rights, not to send her kids to school.
Saying that I think maybe she has been a bit too honest for her own good.She has basically said a large portion of her working day will be taken up with looking after the kids. It is understandable that a manager would be peeved to hear that. I think most ppl will be in the same boat, but I think its probably wise to drop other things into the mix- slow internet making jobs take long etc etc.
I do think that over the course of the day you should be able to do 7.5 hours of work, required. In fact over as you work 3 days out of 5 maybe you can split that over 5 days. You cant really expect your boss to show flexibility and than you not.
We all need to pull togeather.

I dont think shes wrong tbh. Shes asked you to do a certain job and you've said you cant because of the kids. So she's said I'm not paying you if you cant work, essentially.

I am a little confused- you say you are vulnerable so don’t want to work from an office. If you have a requirement to work from home as you are genuinely vulnerable due to a health condition, then the rest is a red herring. If you would just prefer to isolate, that is a different matter. We are finding that many patients haven’t quite understood the vulnerability criteria- some overestimate their vulnerability, some underestimate. Quite a few deflated they ought to be in the shielding group, when actually they don’t meet the criteria (though clearly can chose to do so if they wish- but they would have to negotiate this with their employer). If you are not in the shielding group, your employer can require you to attend your place of work if you are not able to work from home. They should have safe-guards in place though- e.g. ability to maintain a safe distance from colleagues/not hot-deskjng etc. If you feel you have been placed in wrong risk group you can discuss this with your GP to clarify.

Assuming your a not in the group of people who should be shielding, I think the issue here is that you are not doing the work you are required to do by your employer- by your own admission you “don’t have the headspace” and you have also said your productivity is down. I think your manager has a right to be concerned in those circumstances. You are getting paid, after all. Your manager cannot force you to send your children to school (especially not if the school won’t take them), but she can ask you to address the issues regarding your performance.

Your work may not be critical in your view, but clearly your employer has a right to expect you to either do the work required or take leave if you can’t? I also feel mixed messages- you say you have no work to do, but also say your productivity is down and you can’t do the work that you have been set (which I think is a work-funded qualification?)- which is it?

You either genuinely have no work to do- in which case your employer is right to put you on leave/reduced hours or furlough (if applicable)- or you do have work that has to be done, in which case you should be doing it to a good standard a d within the times she’s set down- unless you have a reasonable impediment that is your employers problem to fix- e.g. access to the correct resources or equipment.

If you have work but cannot complete it, or at least not at a satisfactory pace, due to childcare distractions, then I don’t think it is unreasonable of your employer to ask you to either address the childcare issue (and if they don’t meet criteria to go to school, then there is little you can do) or you address the issue Regarding your ability to complete the work required. So you could try negotiating your working hours- could you work evenings/weekends when your husband is home from work, for instance? If there is no way to do that, then I think you do need to take leave- either unpaid or use your paid leave up.

@Cacacoisfarraige

I fully agree with you. I was quoting another poster but failed to make the quote in bold type.

I think the problem is, being in the vulnerable category doesn't provide you with any more protection than someone not at risk, you follow the same advice re social distancing and are still required to go to work if necessary. Its just you've had formal confirmation from GP that you are more vulnerable. Lots of people have complained about this.

I haven’t RTFT, apologies.

Your DH needs to be shielding. He needs to ring his Consultant to get put on the shielding list.

You need to tell your boss that the Headteacher has refused to take your kids as you are not an essential key worker and that is that.

@TurquoisetamborineBecause of the needs of your 5yo - your attention is required to keep them safe & sound - and the needs of your H when he returns from work, you are a Carer twice over.

In this instance, irrespective of the current COVID-19 & blanket WFH policy, the CS will have both a Carer & Special Leave policy to support employees when leave from normal duties is required to meet the demands of unpaid caring.

Employers for Carers Civil Service 2020 statement about supporting Carers.

Check out the HR & policy pages on the Dept. Intranet & details of the CS Carers Network mentioned in the CS statement. In my experience, employee Carer Networks are a great group for support & information.

Your line manager needs bringing up to date on standard policy.
I would be very surprised if HR advised a line manager to encourage an employee in your situation to take unpaid leave. Therefore, my assumption is that your manager has not sought HR guidance.

@Turquoisetamborine you may not see yourself as an Carer, more as a busy mum & wife, BUT you are providing everyday support & care for someone who is chronically ill/disabled & a child who needs supervision to the point where they are being assessed for a long term condition. This is demanding stuff, you & your family need support to live well.

You are already juggling enough, & now with the pressures from work in this difficult time, my concern is that you will become overloaded to the point where your wellbeing is affected. There is only so much that you can do, with so many demands on your energy & time, you may loose sight of yourself & what you need, so prioritising your wellbeing is key

For general information, Carers UK has good information about Carers rights at work, including fact sheets that you might share with your line manager - because it’s important to bring them along with you to ‘do the right thing’. There is a helpline open to help you through this. With the CS policy & CUK information to hand, you can make progress.

www.carersuk.org/news-and-campaigns/press-releases/7-in-10-people-juggling-their-job-with-caring-for-a-loved-one-feel-isolated-at-work.

www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/talk-to-us

The difference between sending them into school now vs in 3 weeks when they fully open, is that when they open, all kids can go. Atm, only essential workers kids can. Schools aren't letting just any child of a WFH parent go in.

The OP is completing all the work she is being given to do as part of her job. As are her colleagues who are not working from home. All of them have less work than normal.

@Cheeseandwin5
From the face of it and without reading all the pages, it does seem the OP is within her rights, not to send her kids to school.

You are missing the salient issues really, by not reading the whole thread before posting.

The strangest thing about your entire story is that your 12 year old wants to sit on the sofa with his / her mother and 5 year old sibling and watch TV.

How so? I used to sit on the sofa with my younger sister and mum, with kids TV on, I'd just play on my phone too.