To think my boss can't force me to send my kids to school

[Turquoisetamborine]

Both myself and H are in vulnerable groups. H especially as he has stage 4 kidney failure. He has been going to work in a separate entrance to his enclosed office and not coming into contact with anyone. He does need to attend his office though as he's a key worker.

We have two kids of just turned 5 and 12.

I work three days a week from home for a public office so no chance of being furloughed. My boss has informed me that if I don't put my kids in school she will place me on unpaid leave.

I'd been managing at home to do work before they got up and during the day when they watched telly. Not to my full capacity admittedly but doing my bit and we have barely any work to do at the moment anyway. We are doing non essential tasks like learning and reading guidance.

She's saying it isn't good enough that I'm trying to do both and she's paying me to sit at home and do nothing. She's not paying me actually as we are civil servants and I am quite willing to work from home on jobs which don't require a huge amount of concentration. I can do my normal job no problem as I've been doing it so long and know it inside out. Now she's given me a choice, go on unpaid leave or put kids in school.

Headteacher says kids should be at home unless parents are actually out at work such as teachers, nurses etc. and that they should only be coming to school due to an emergency situation.

Can she force me to send them when I'm at home willing to care for them?

I don’t think you can pick just the easy jobs, if you expect your full salary you need to work the full hours. Lots of people are doing extra training etc at home to fill their contracted hours.

If you want to work just the minimum then ask your boss to cut your hours temporarily. Alternatively your husband could work from home as well some days to allow you to carry out the other tasks.

I am also a CS, and agree with other posters that your manager seems to be trying to make a decision they probably aren't authorised to.

In my department the guidance is clear, do as much as you can, when you can. A child in the background of a conference call is now the absolute norm.

Our department is also paying everyone their full salary, regardless of how much of their FTE they are managing to work. Anyone below their hours is having it made up with special leave. We have SCS in our organisation only working 60/70% on full pay due to caring responsibilities.

Has your department issued COVID HR guidance? If so, you need to review that and quote it back to your manager.

On a separate note, unless your role is directly related to the response to COVID, or you work in a department with responsibility for national security such as MOD or NCA, then you won't be a key worker.

Of course the employer is and to ask her to do other tasks if her regular work isn’t available and she wants to be paid. Any other worker outside the civil service, where work dried up, would simply be out of a job. If you are getting paid, your employer is fair to expect that you are working your hours.

In my department it you are on the list of people that may have complications you are not allowed in the office. This also includes obesity so half the workforce at the moment isnt even allowed in the office. Our HR guidance has also been updated to include parents who are uncomfortable sending their children for childcare and it's all ok not to send them. I think you need to consider how you are presenting your unwillingness to do what you are being asked.

Be a pain in the ass

Refusing to be bullied isn't being a pain in the ass, it's asserting your employment rights. Bullies only get away with it if no one stands up to them. OP should be a good little girl and do as she's told by the mean girl? Sod that!

You really need to push the situation with your husband further. What does he do that can’t be done from home? Your manager is potentially breaking organisational guidelines as many people have said the civil service is generally being supportive.

And for the posters moaning on about not expecting to be paid for not doing normal hours. Where do you work? I have friends in a variety of industries. No-one with children seems to be doing a full and normal 9-5. Most people are working odd hours around children, most people aren’t doing exactly full time and most employers have been understanding. Obviously there will be the odd shitty manager but if you can’t look after your staff and be a bit accommodating during a global pandemic then I hate to think what you must be like to work for during normal times.

Hold on- am I reading right from other posters that civil service employees in some departments are being given extra, fully paid leave to look after kids??? If that’s the case I’m genuinely shocked. People in the private sector are having to cut their hours, juggle home and work responsibilities, work late into the night, or use all their holiday to look after kids, but public sector are given extra paid leave to do it, at the expense of tax payers, at a time of national crisis and possibly the biggest recession in living memory????

Your boss seems to be conflating two issues - your children being at home and a lack of productivity. Focus on the latter and ask her for evidence that you are being less productive than usual. She can't unilaterally decide that your children being at home affects you in a particular way - she needs to demonstrate that.

It sounds like your boss is doing the best to ensure you can be at home with very little of your job to do but still getting full pay. I'd suggest you either take unpaid leave or look at doing some work in the evening and at weekends when your husband is at home. It isn't easy, I did my professional qualification over 4 years while holding down a fulltime job, being husband's carer and mum to two. By year 4 I had got the promtion I wanted, more pressure, and was preparing for final exams, it was hell and I was close to cracking but I wanted the qualification. You need to decide what your top priority is, keeping kids at home, not having work to do or being able to stay at home and get full pay, if none of those work then it would be down to one option, unpaid leave.

I appreciate it doesn't feel fair, not alot feels fair at the moment.

From a teacher's point of view.....I'd be pretty annoyed having an extra child in school just because someone is doing a non essential course at home that their boss has given them just to keep them busy. Every extra child is additional risk to us. Glad the headteacher said no. OP your boss is being very unreasonable you should not agree to unpaid leave at all. I also don't think your husband should be in either.

The manager is entirely out of line with good private sector practice as well. I'm shocked but not surprised to here someone state they are a SM in the CS who don't accept mental health problems, even when those problems are aggravated by management.

So as I read it:

• OP has tried to get a place for her children in school,
• has completed all her own daily work just as if she were in the office
• has completed additional tasks associated with other responsibilities in the organisation
• has a strong track record in the organisation including with this manager
• is now being mandated by the manager to do a year long qualification in her "spare working hours" within a couple of weeks

Not seeing much compromise or support from the manager there. I'm wondering:

• if the work can be done from home why are other staff in the office against government guidelines?
• are the other staff also being mandated to do a year long qualification in a few weeks?

OP keep a mail trail of everything, details, dates and events. If its a phone conversation mail the manager with a summary of your understanding of that conversation.

Good to have the union involved but as its CS I'd expect HR to be interested too. If you are beginning to struggle with coping with the stress does the CS have a workplace counselling service (and you should still be able to talk to your GP even if you can't see them).

She is being an unreasonable bitch really and I can’t see why everyone is agreeing with her

I'm always faintly disheartened by threads about work on AIBU. Seems like mumsnet is stuffed rigid with little worker bees desperate to work til they die for their wonderful bosses. One memorable comment said that what your employer wants is always more important than your work/life balance. Depressing.

Slightly off topic, but I’ve had several discussions on here where I’ve voiced the opinion that female bosses aren’t always as sympathetic to other women as many people assume, and that female solidarity is not a given IME
Why should there be solidarity? Sexism is illegal. You can't expect to be treated the same by male bosses yet solidarity from female bosses.

The attitude of some posters here is shocking. Another example of a complete sense of entitlement. Emoyees don't get the rule the world and dictate their employer how work should be performed based on their personal needs.

The employer has been perfectly reasonable. Agreed to working from home and agreeing for parental leave of work can't be performed as requested. What you can't have is your cake and eating it, full pay yet dectating what work and how much of it they will do.

As a Civil Servant - I know that we are very fortunate. Your boss seems to be over stepping the mark. It could be a case of bullying.
I would suggest following the Union recommendations, also making use of any Personal Assistance available to you - we have a telephone/online app available.
No she can't make you send your DC to school, and for your little one unless he has all the support in place there then it is not the best place for him.

Speak to your school over the phone - explain that your boss wants you to put your children in school so you can do a dissertation. Tell them you would understand if the school refuses as this is not key worker activity - ask the school to put their refusal in writing.
I am also eligible for the flu shot - the government arsed up so much to do with coronavirus including the whole ‘vulnerable thing’. One of the first things they put out was if you are eligible for a flu shot you are vulnerable...but then I think they realised this was so many people they backed tracked and developed an extremely vulnerable category. Us vunerables, but not extremely vunerables, have been told we should stay at home - but there is not a directive from the government saying it’s essential so employers hopefully try and help this group but they are not obliged to help us more than the general population as we are not ‘shielding’.
I think as well you are trying to say you can work from home...but really it’s come out that you understandably feel you can’t write while looking after your 5 year old. I think you need to break down your problem.
A) my son was diagnosed borderline asd at 5 and also had sleep problems (had to sit in the room and hold his hand for hours to get to sleep). You need to find a short term solution - ask your husband and if this is not possible ask your 12 year old to help get him to sleep. Your income is at risk so someone needs to help you.
B) tell your boss you are going to write this dissertation - don’t say you will try or do your best. Say you will do it. Quite frankly if you attempt it and fail than she can’t sack you for that. But I am guessing she can drop your pay for saying you are not sure you can do it.

If this were me I would tell my boss that “this policy” is very unfair and putting me in an impossible situation. (I would blame “the policy” and not her personally even though it won’t actually be a policy and will just be your boss making it up as she goes along.

I would state that i will need to put in a formal grievance and this woukd be sent to your boss & their boss / any relevant higher bosses and Cc: your union.

I would state that government guidance is that you work from home if possible and you keep your children and home if possible and that employers are requested to be understanding about this. Then point out that your public sector employer that should be supporting government policy is making it very difficult for you. State that it is entirely possible to do your job from home but you are being put under pressure to go into work or to send your kids to school. Also state that you are being put under pressure to undertake a qualification at the worst possible time and to complete it in less than the usual time without tuition or support. If your colleagues are not being ask to take the qualification point this out.

It takes guts to file a grievance but I think if you do make a formal complaint you will show that you are not a pushover and I think you will get what you want (for your boss to lay off and just let you muddle through).

(Also send your complaint to HR)

Rainallnight
Christ on a bike. Are you ops boss? Did you miss the bit, where op is desperately worried about her very ill dh or struggling with her ds with additional needs?

Not all public sector get the perks of the civil service. I’m not getting my full pay with adjustments for caring responsibilities. I’m NHS working at home with 2 DC, one with ASD and an EHCP. I work 70% contract but really, really busy at the moment. I am expected to do my job as usual. DH has been allowed to cut his hours from his private sector job ( he is also very busy), so he can help with the DC. With a pay cut to match.

I cant get oast that you are saying on one hand how vulnerable your husband is, yet he is still going into work!

I get so confused on these threads! The other day the OP was complaining about her friend who was wfh but wanted to send her kids to school, the verdict there was the women was risking her dcs life & killing teachers!

This thread posters telling the OP to send her kids to school even though she isn't a key worker & can wfh. Minor point that the school has said no?

To clarify not "this" OP

The OP getting a really rough ride from people on here, plus many haven't grasped the situation fully. It's no good telling op to 'put her child/ren in school' as an integral part of the problem is she doesn't want to do that as both her, and her husband in particular are deemed vulnerable. Surely people can understand that? In any case, only keyworkers have school places at the moment anyway, and op isn't one by the sounds of it.
The fact is, that the op IS doing her usual work from home and completing this easily as there isn't much work to do. Her colleagues going into work are in the same position with little work to do.
Op has been directed to complete a qualification which normally takes a year, and complete it in the time she is working from home. The support given at the beginning of the course isn't currently available, so it's a pretty unreasonable request from her manager. If other colleagues aren't being pressured to do this too, to utilise their time fully, then it feels like op is being singled out and unfairly discriminated against. Bear in mind also that the op only works three days a week.
You really need to contact your HR dept and start looking at their policies surrounding the current crisis, and seek their opinion about whether your manager is being reasonable in what she is asking you to do. I don't believe she is.
It does however, seem reasonable that you start the training course and do as much as possible of it, ( which op hasn't refused to do) but without the expectation that you complete the whole thing in a much shorter time. I do think you could do some writing early mornings and after the youngest child is in bed.