To think my boss can't force me to send my kids to school

[Turquoisetamborine]

Both myself and H are in vulnerable groups. H especially as he has stage 4 kidney failure. He has been going to work in a separate entrance to his enclosed office and not coming into contact with anyone. He does need to attend his office though as he's a key worker.

We have two kids of just turned 5 and 12.

I work three days a week from home for a public office so no chance of being furloughed. My boss has informed me that if I don't put my kids in school she will place me on unpaid leave.

I'd been managing at home to do work before they got up and during the day when they watched telly. Not to my full capacity admittedly but doing my bit and we have barely any work to do at the moment anyway. We are doing non essential tasks like learning and reading guidance.

She's saying it isn't good enough that I'm trying to do both and she's paying me to sit at home and do nothing. She's not paying me actually as we are civil servants and I am quite willing to work from home on jobs which don't require a huge amount of concentration. I can do my normal job no problem as I've been doing it so long and know it inside out. Now she's given me a choice, go on unpaid leave or put kids in school.

Headteacher says kids should be at home unless parents are actually out at work such as teachers, nurses etc. and that they should only be coming to school due to an emergency situation.

Can she force me to send them when I'm at home willing to care for them?

sit next to the kids while they watch the telly and I can be on my laptop

Isnt this a big chunk of your concentration problem? Do you really need to be right next to them? Is there somewhere else you could go to work eg dining table but still be available if necessary?

One of the things I find helps enormously with concentration is to have a single earpiece in. It muffles sound but at the same time I'm not completely isolated.

Maybe you could offer a compromise and take one day a week annual leave so then you are only expecting to do four days a week.

I don’t really understand this either. What is the difference in sending your kids to school now or when the schools fully open? Why would you deem the risk less?

And I’m sure you know fully your boss can’t force you to send your kids to school. But nor can you force them to keep paying you if you elect not to and state you can’t do the work they set because of it.

She has given you work to do, the qualification, you have said you’re unable to due to the kids. She can put you on unpaid leave.

But again, I simply don’t understand what the difference is between sending them to school now or in three weeks say,

Your boss is being unreasonable if she isn't happy with you doing your qualification work in the evening, it makes no odds. If she requires you to be contactable during office hours can you just say you'll keep your laptop nearby with Skype on or something? Your husband's work is being VVVU.

OP, I think you are getting a really hard time here. The school have already refused to accept one of your children. Your husband has to work out of the home. You are vulnerable and shielding. You are trying to work and look after children, presumably because having zero salary is not an option. You are getting your work done but can't take on a qualification too.
I think everyone has to take accept that these are unprecedented times and cut other people some slack, including your boss. But apparently everyone on MN this morning thinks we should all be plunging ourselves into poverty or sacrificing ourselves on the alter of unreasonable expectations from work.

I agree with pp - you are both very unlucky - ignore all the self righteous posters telling you to get back to the office - are they living in another reality to the rest of us?

Everyone is just doing what they can at the moment. I can't send my dc to school even if I wanted to and neither can you as you are not a key worker.

Could you go down to part time, OP? Would that remove the requirement to complete this course?

@StepAwayFromGoogle The actual number of people with the 12 week shielding letter is quite small - there is a bigger "vulnerable" group who are advised to take more precautions. I would suggest OPs husband doesn't have "the letter" as his work would not be able to make him go in if that was the case. I don't think OP has the 12 week letter either.

OP I think you've been given a hard time on here, and your line manager is being unreasonable who clearly hasn't engaged on guidance around children and school. You are eligible for a school space (but not guaranteed) if both parents are key workers who are unable to work from home. In our village school, only two families from key working parents were accepted.

These circumstances are beyond your control, I have 9&5 year old sons fight a lot. My five year old had just started primary 1 and was to be seen by educational psychologist, so I understand how much work it is. My 5 year old was crying last night because he misses his friends. This isn't just a toll on us, but we have to be there for our children too.

I think it may be worth discussing your availability with your LM, assuring her that you are working through qualification, perhaps suggest workable deadlines for review points to check in with her.

I work in HR and I haven't been doing my full hours, I've been put on to project work and allowed to work flexibly. If this isn't workable, I will then take all AL and then unpaid.

It's so so difficult to work from home and look after children and then homeschooling on top of that and then the normal day to day household chores, then top it off with the worry of a global pandemic and education gap! I am terrible teacher for my children, but I'm trying. Go easy on yourself

You have got some good ideas here. If the headteacher wont take your kids (understandable), it really doesn’t matter how strongly your boss feels they should be in scholl.

To do 3x days a weeks around the 2x kids sounds doable if you choose your time. If you can do background reading while the kids are around and then just an hour of more focused writing when they are in bed that would go a long way. And if you normaly have tutor time before starting such a qualification then that should be available by zoom or at least over the phone.

*YANBU. It's extremely difficult to do any work from home, let alone studying/dissertation type work with a 5 year old to take care of. Plus you have an another child to care for too.

I'm surprised by some of the other posters comments. Perhaps they have children who are easier to handle. Children come in all shapes and sizes!*

Nobody has misunderstood that at all. Quite the contrary. Working from home and being paid full pay is not intended for childcare. The OP has made that point herself, albeit not intending to. She cannot devote her time to doing the job that she is being paid for because her children need supervision. "Working from home" means exactly that - working from home, not fitting it in when convenient because you are busy parenting, or only doing what suits you in between parenting.

If this were a case of an occasional day here and there in an unusual situation then the manager might be more flexible. But it is every day, all day - the other parent is taking none of the responsibility so the OP's employer is the only one expected to show flexibility - not the OP, not the husband, not the husbands employer. And given that the OP seems to indicate that that neither of them will be returning to work normally for a long time, this situation will stretch on for a very long time.

The OP does have other choices - but none of them involve getting paid in full for looking after her children, and that is actually her issue. She could take unpaid leave. She could use annual leave. Or she could deal with the school who are, in fact, misusing the rules, because if she is a key worker as she says, the rules are that she is entitled to childcare and working from home doesn't change that - you cannot work and supervise children simultaneously.

The strangest thing about your entire story is that your 12 year old wants to sit on the sofa with his / her mother and 5 year old sibling and watch TV.

Not one part of that makes sense.

Your Dh's kidney failure is getting worse? Jesus Christ that man shouldn't be at work in covid, should he?

My Dh manages a site: think gas/electricity/water supplier. Some of his guys are ill. They aren't on site!

Please get your Dh to ring his consultant. Today.
Please

I can do my normal job no problem as I've been doing it so long and know it inside out. Now she's given me a choice, go on unpaid leave or put kids in school.

Well the choice is to work hard at a qualification that will get you out of your rut. If you've been doing your normal job for so long it takes little effort or concentration it sounds to me as if your boss is now offering you a way out of this. It seems ideal - work quietly at home on a qualification to improve your job performance and perhaps move on. And you're turning this down.

I get that it's difficult for you but I can see where your boss is coming from. She wants to use this time, you sound like you're happy coasting.

People are saying it's perfectly reasonably that you manager expects you to take a professional qualification but I really don't think it is unless it's needed for business purposes. Even if it is, she can't force you to finish it in quicker time. How long would someone working on it full time take to do this dissertation? You're only working 3 days a week so you should have more time. Also just because you take longer doesn't mean she can force you to go on unpaid leave. Tbh I would get your union to help resist. I can't see her getting much help from HR on this if it's the CS. If you are stressed you could also notify her of that - your dept should have a policy for making adjustments to deal with it, which can involve allowing more time to complete things.

Why is your husband at work when he’s so ill? Can he stay home while you work? Surely with kidney failure he can be put on sick leave?

This has been an almighty drip feed hasn't it! You do sound a bit entitled though sorry. You need to put the hours in that you're getting paid for, or at least try to. If not is there an option for you to negotiate a wage cut for the hours you're actually managing to work?
Is there an option for you to go into the office? If you can could you then send your children to school?

I've struggled to work from home. I took on a new second part time stressful job, aswell as my old job, which I can do with my eyes closed, but is currently at the busiest time of year, with payroll year end, accounts year end. Covid portal, corona business interruption loan applications.

I've barely spoken to my 2. Other than shouting at them to get off the x box, because I've lost my conference call connection. I haven't even checked any the work my youngest has done.

Not my best parenting. It dawned on me at the weekend how badly I've let them down.

Tis tricky times atm OP.

What is the guidance from your HR dept? I’m a CS too and there is no question of unpaid leave in any situation during Covid. We’re supposed to be WFH As the norm for starters, be accommodating of colleagues with children off school and give special paid leave if it’s unavoidable. Same across a few depts that I have friends in. No one is trying to make anyone do extra bits because they think they aren’t busy enough. We’re supposed to be extra vigilant about wellbeing.

Your dept should have a policy for making adjustments to deal with it, which can involve allowing more time to complete things.

I agree.

If the OP isn’t able to do her work/qualification with eight focused hours a day then the company need to look at alternative solutions. It would only be an issue if she wasn’t putting in the hours and still expecting full pay.

Right, so there are a few issues here.

1. Your husband is extremely ill so we need to take him out of the equation in terms of childcare etc. I assume he is too ill to look after the kids full time at the weekend or in evenings.

2. Your boss isn't being completely terrible. This pandemic has raised so many difficult situations like this.

3. Your boss is right, you are not able to complete what she would like you to do. Understandable but does need looking at.

4. There needs to be compromise. This means you thinking what part of the writing could you get done in a week? Each evening, once kids in bed, what could you bosh out? You need to show willing to at least start the qualification properly. I doubt you can seriously do the reading required with a 5year old next to you (I have one, she never shuts up )

5. I'll say it again. Compromise is key. You may well find that if you offer a solution that meets this half way then your boss will back down.

6. If this ramps up then you can put your kids in school. How on earth will school know that you are working from home? You tell them you are now due in at the office two days a week and you put them in. They don't have to go in full time. Just long enough for you to complete a decent chunk of writing. This is another compromise you could suggest. It doesn't answer the problem of you being in the vulnerable group though so I'm not sure.

Good luck

@Rosehip10 - it really doesn't matter if the OP and/or her husband have an official letter. I think that "I can't come into work at the moment or send my children to school in order to protect members of my family from potential death by drowing in fluid on their lungs" is a reasonable excuse. What the fuck is wrong with everyone today?

I’m puzzled when you say even colleagues in the office don’t have enough work. Why aren’t they, and you, being furloughed if that’s the case?

I'm surprised your manager has the authority to do this. I'm a mid ranking civil servant and in my Department the direction about working from home unless your job cant be done at home has come from the top. Individual managers may not trust people and dont like people working from home but they cant compel people to go into the office. For those with children its accepted people may do different and strange hours. I would speak to your managers manager.

What is the guidance from your HR dept? I’m a CS too and there is no question of unpaid leave in any situation during Covid. We’re supposed to be WFH As the norm for starters, be accommodating of colleagues with children off school and give special paid leave if it’s unavoidable. Same across a few depts that I have friends in. No one is trying to make anyone do extra bits because they think they aren’t busy enough. We’re supposed to be extra vigilant about wellbeing.

Absolutely.

I think posters are misunderstanding the school situation. Children should not be at school of a parent can work at home. OP isn't choosing that situation. It's the government guidance!

Some posters are questioning why she thinks work should pay her if she is not at full capacity. Someone said work is not a charity. Yet the government is paying many many people/businesses money for not working at the moment. And I'm glad they are.