To not download the contact tracing app

[Ghostlyglow]

When it becomes available. How many people will?

They don't know if having had it confers immunity yet.

They are talking about this in depth on Al Jazeera right now if anyone is up.

I don't have a smart phone and have no desire to get one, so nope.

My main concern is it being misused by the general public not government.

All it takes is one teenager, after day at school and a shift working at the local supermarket, to flasely input that they have a temp, and a whole school, or town, could be closed down for a fortnight.
This would cause so much financial hardship, job losses, kids not at school, money spent deep cleaning all the places that teenager had been, all for them having a laugh and wanting time off school.

If it was based on positive tests, I'd be more keen. Perhaps you'd have to enter a code from your rest report, or something like that to verify that you actually have been tested positive.
Self diagnosis is too unreliable. I know some people who 'catch' everything going, they don't really, but the convince themselves. For example, if someone tells you not to cough, people will subconsciously think about it and probably start coughing. Many people would ignore that and see if it becomes a persistent cough, others would report it straight away.

I honestly don’t mind being tracked. I’m not Jason Bourne.

It seems to work well in South Korea.

Point is you can infectious before you show symptoms. Many posters on this thread seem to be thinking about themselves.

It is about others being warned that they may have become infected. So they can be alert, and if necessary take action like staying away from vulnerable family members.

Numbers need to fall first, but it could be a really useful tool when easing lockdown, and help avoid a second peak.

Individual vs society. Our choice.

From what I've heard It'll be on an update so I don't think you'll have a choice, it'll be built in.

I thought it was going to be voluntary, not snuck into a iPhone or Android update!

Here's a take on what's happening in Australia:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/22/whats-the-deal-with-the-coronavirus-tracing-app-cassandra-the-information-technology-wobbegong-explains

I'll download it. We can all be tracked and are being tracked in many ways, this is just one more and for the greater good.

It have never been said that it will be forced upon people
It is normal that you ask people to download it

I think the ides should be that as soon as symptoms are reported, you get alerted. This minimises the chances of you spreading it

Testing should then follow and if the test is all clear you will be signalled and told you are free to stop isolating

I have no problem downloading it. And for those worried about malicious reports etc, my understanding was with the increased testing that the person who reports symptoms is then tested. If it's positive then people are asked to self isolate for the whole 7/14 days but if the test is negative then you are only isolated for a couple of days then you get another alert that says the person was negative and you can go about your business. It works on codes that bluetooth transmits so personal data is not shared between phones only the code. My Bluetooth is on all the time anyway and my battery life is fine.

I just feel like so many people are struggling with lockdown that anything that gets us out quicker and prevents death and a second peak is worth a small sacrifice in privacy.

It’s very Black Mirror.

I will, I just want to help as much as I can, so we can get out from this Lockdown, already have so many apps which tracking me that do not mind additional

I would’ve downloaded it if they’d chosen the decentralised Apple/Google system where they don’t hold on to the data but I won’t because they have they gave the contract to Cummings’s BFFs brother who worked with Cambridge Analytica to use our personal data to manipulate voters.

They’re banking on people downloading the app for Covid and forgetting to delete it after. The data they will have on everyone will be a goldmine, it will make the Facebook/Cambridge Analytica data corruption (stopped using Facebook after that) look minor in comparison. We will never have a fair election again.

If they make it compulsory, I will just get a separate non-smart phone. I’m not a conspiracy theorist but Ben Warner, Cummings etc are not to be trusted. They do not work for the public good. When Cummings finally get turfed from Number 10, he and the Warner brothers will have data worth billions to play with and sell to their friends in Silicon Valley.

The things that can be done with data in the wrong hands are fucking scary for society and individuals. Most of the government don’t have a clue about data and in their rush to get this through have probably agreed to let the Warner’s hold on to some of the data to use for other models/uses. I bet it’s easy for them to de-anonymise the data too. They’ll probably install cookies, and be able to see what else is on your phone. Imagine trying to get insurance but the insurance company know that you were searching for symptoms of an illness or being judged a credit risk because they saw your dodgy brothers convictions on your phone contacts list?

I have no time for the ‘nothing to hide, nothing to fear’ people because they’re very naive. In our panic, we could be walking into a situation where the data used causes far more harm than a mild case of Covid.

We've already got one in Australia and we've downloaded it. It doesn't work by tracking location though, it uses Bluetooth to connect to other people nearby who also have it.
Google, Facebook etc collect so much more sensitive creepy data but I still have those so seems silly to object to this.

I have no issue downloading it but I don't have my Bluetooth on as it kills my battery.

I work rurally and go between peoples houses for work (in normal times of course) and I need to have a working phone on me to keep in touch with clients.

There's no way my phone battery would last if I had to keep my Bluetooth on all day 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you do decide to download it ensure that you thoroughly read all the T&Cs so you’re aware of what your are agreeing to.

@vanillandhoney how do you get between houses? I would have thought your situation would be perfect for keeping your phone charged as you can charge it in the car

Good grief - so many tin foil hats about!

And then...

Person 1 - 'bloody government, messed it up, deceiving us, locked down too late, not letting us go early enough - when are they going to DO something to help us get back to normal?'

Person 2 - well yes, you have a point, however, there is a contact tracing app in development which will help us get back to normal life quicker and hopes to avoid mass lock downs for months on end - great eh? Seems it's worked really well elsewhere...'

Person 1 - 'oooh no, I don't fancy that, I won't do that. Bloody government'

Am in Aus - already downloaded our version. I had privacy concerns but after the app got the going over by lots of tech ppl - my concerns have been satisfied and am happy to have it.
Our infection numbers are very low and contact tracing and testing is very high (we are pretty much able to get testing on request now) and effective so the app looks to be an extra layer of protection as we start opening back up to a new normal.
I don't understand how if testing is shite and no contact tracing is occurring what is the point?

Interesting analysis by a real expert.

www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/05/me_on_covad-19_.html

schneier.com
Me on COVID-19 Contact Tracing Apps
3-4 minutes

I was quoted in BuzzFeed:

"My problem with contact tracing apps is that they have absolutely no value," Bruce Schneier, a privacy expert and fellow at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University, told BuzzFeed News. "I'm not even talking about the privacy concerns, I mean the efficacy. Does anybody think this will do something useful? ... This is just something governments want to do for the hell of it. To me, it's just techies doing techie things because they don't know what else to do."

I haven't blogged about this because I thought it was obvious. But from the tweets and emails I have received, it seems not.

This is a classic identification problem, and efficacy depends on two things: false positives and false negatives.

False positives: Any app will have a precise definition of a contact: let's say it's less than six feet for more than ten minutes. The false positive rate is the percentage of contacts that don't result in transmissions. This will be because of several reasons. One, the app's location and proximity systems <span class="line-through"> based on GPS and Bluetooth </span> just aren't accurate enough to capture every contact. Two, the app won't be aware of any extenuating circumstances, like walls or partitions. And three, not every contact results in transmission; the disease has some transmission rate that's less than 100% (and I don't know what that is).
False negatives: This is the rate the app fails to register a contact when an infection occurs. This also will be because of several reasons. One, errors in the app's location and proximity systems. Two, transmissions that occur from people who don't have the app (even Singapore didn't get above a 20% adoption rate for the app). And three, not every transmission is a result of that precisely defined contact -- the virus sometimes travels further.

Assume you take the app out grocery shopping with you and it subsequently alerts you of a contact. What should you do? It's not accurate enough for you to quarantine yourself for two weeks. And without ubiquitous, cheap, fast, and accurate testing, you can't confirm the app's diagnosis. So the alert is useless.

Similarly, assume you take the app out grocery shopping and it doesn't alert you of any contact. Are you in the clear? No, you're not. You actually have no idea if you've been infected.

The end result is an app that doesn't work. People will post their bad experiences on social media, and people will read those posts and realize that the app is not to be trusted. That loss of trust is even worse than having no app at all.

It has nothing to do with privacy concerns. The idea that contact tracing can be done with an app, and not human health professionals, is just plain dumb.

So many thread with OPs asking questions that would help the government find out public opinion and then never coming back.

Is it a coincidence or is MN being invaded by fake posters?

SouthKoreas has been very effective - they did not go full lockdown but the app was not a choice. Iceland has a voluntary app and had at least a 50% takeup. Australia is sitting at 4.25million out of a potential 10million downloads in a week. Govt is getting twitchy and telling us if we want our sport and pubs back we need to get the app.... ppl are getting a bit pissy (rightly so) at being held hostage. It will be interesting to see if we can hit the desired 40% take up but the govt needs to tread carefully or lose a lot of goodwill and compliance built with the population.