Why don't women just divorce?

[arethereanyleftatall]

Musing because I've nothing else to do.

Every day on mumsnet/other social media/my friends there's thousands of women talking about husbands who they clearly neither like nor love.

Why do women stay with husbands who add no value to their lives?

@SirChing, no don't apologise! I needed it!

I sort of had the decision taken out of my hands when OM met someone else and told me to make a go of things with DH..I tried for a bit but the thought made me so desperately unhappy that I realised there was no way I could continue as I knew if he'd said he wanted to get together for real I would. We did counselling but I just had no trying left in me. Sometimes I feel stupid, sometimes brave... Most days up and down. But I'm getting there, slowly. I still don't always believe I do have the right to end things just because I'm unhappy... But I think it'll just take time.

I totally understand @breathlessCommotion I get upset about the things I'm going to lose, but more feeling guilty about the things I'm
making DH miss out on, the cat, our garden... Ridiculous things 🤷‍♀️ but then I have to remember that he's been unhappy for years, 5 he said in counselling, he buried his head and pretended it was all fine, he contributed to our situation too... I feel awful because its me that pulled the plug, and I did some awful things but it's not all my fault.
I think it's normal to have this back and forth constantly, it how we figure things out in our minds I guess. I find it helps to write things down, to get them out of my head.

SirChing is bang on the money. Children are not stupid and they know that even if it’s a “blah”
marriage, let alone an abusive one, that their parents would be happier living apart.

The problem is the whole infrastructure of marriage and divorce is designed effectively to punish people from doing the most natural thing in the world: drifting apart and moving on with their lives. People are not biologically designed to stay together for decades, but this moral code which was designed to keep women in servitude is still the basic legal underpinning for it, dressed up with a whole heap of Disney bollocks.

I understand that marriage offers certain protection for the financially weaker partner when child-rearing is happening and that women are sensible to take advantage of that when they need to. But ultimately I think it’s a huge financial and societal millstone.

I don’t know what the solution is but I do think it needs to be evaluated to make the process of separation easier and more humane.

@BreathlessCommotion You really want sternness? Ok....you are sacrificing your kids happiness and mental health for reasons as weighty as......you will miss the dog!

Far from it being about "sacrificing everyone for your happiness" if you leave, you are already actually doing that. You are sacrificing the happiness of ALL OF YOU by not having the balls to leave.

Is that the example and behaviour your kids deserve? Yes, dogs are part of the family, and I have pets too so I get it, but they are still animals! I wonder how much your kids will thank you for subjecting them to an unhappy parent? Think they will be happy that you missing the dog was even a consideration about what is best for them?

From comments like "I'm ashamed to say I've been considering it", you know damn well it is wrong, or you wouldn't be ashamed!

Being utterly brutal, for all your protestations that you are thinking of others, every word you wrote has been just about you. Because that's how unhappy marriages make people - so miserable they can't see how self absorbed they are being.

If you think it's ok to subject not only you, but your poor husband who may be crap but has no idea where he currently stands, and your kids, to a miserable life filled with emotional uncertainty, then carry on. Or, do the decent, respectful but scary thing, and MAKE A FUCKING DECISION. With your children's best interests in mind, not the fucking dogs! And DON'T let fear of change stop you doing the right thing if you ever want your kids to respect you and thank you as adults.

You have tried counselling - it didn't work. You have tried time - hasn't worked. Him doing more - hasn't worked. It ISNT WORKING! Face up to that for God's sake. It isn't going to change just because you wish you weren't in the situation you are in!

You are NOT being a decent parent. If you want to be, make a decision and actually act on it. Give your husband the respect of knowing where he stands. Give your kids a chance to have some respect for you. And stop being so fucking self indulgent by moping about the dog and feeling bad for your husband etc. You are CURRENTLY putting everyone through hell with your refusal to make a decision and act on it. Get your head out of your backside and actually deal with this shit!

That's the sternest I can be. It's harsh as fuck. It's also true and you damn well know it. You can carry on actively harming everyone by pretending to maintain the status quo, or you can change it. You choose!

That was bloody horrible for me to write and I am so sorry for it sounding hurtful. But the truth does. Now come on, you can do this!

@SirChing and @BreathlessCommotion amazing post.

It's the truth though. I've just got to bed after a horrible night having a conversation about DH moving out. He cried (first time in years) and told me he'd cried himself to sleep every night. But you know, after talking for 4 hours, he admitted he's realised that his tiny bit of hope that everything will be OK, is just fear too. Fear of being alone, fear of change. We've agreed though, we've d one the worst but, we've said what we've said. So now it's practical stuff, telling people, all that. But we've agreed to do it with kindness and respect, plus love for the kids and each other. Its bloody hard, but it is getting better. I know he's sad, but I've been sad, and we will both come out of it happier, the kids too.

I've seen the financial fall out first hand. My parents both had similar qualifications at university. She struggled to get work in a male dominated industry, and stopped working once she had kids. He worked full time, and is now wealthy. She got something in the divorce, but raising kids, it went pretty fast, and did not replace her lost earning potential. She's in her 60s, minimum savings, renting, and earning enough to get by. I worry about her retirement.

Just to add : my mum worked throughout my childhood, but it was always what she could do around school pickup and housework. She was never able to build a career, so is stuck on entry level pay.

@Stegasaurusmum Aw good for you! It's hard and sad but you can do it. And separating with love and respect for the great times you have had, is such a caring thing to do for each other.

I don't know if this helps, but when my ex and I split, we couldn't bear to write down five things we found unacceptable about each other for the divorce. We split with love, and it seemed counterproductive to an amicable relationship to drag up past hurts for a legal document.

I am NOT suggesting that you do this as it would be lying on a legal document, but initially ex and I agreed that we would rather both make up 5 things and write those down, than identify real hurts. We just didn't want to fall out. In the end, so started seeing someone and persuaded my ex to divorce me for adultery. I think I wrote all the legal papers actually and he just signed them It is so so much easier if you can come to an agreement about it that is as detached as possible from the hurts of your marriage. My solicitor said the same actually. That divorcing for adultery is easiest.

So if you can, between you, "remember" an event that will happen in the next few weeks, it could save your friendship.

And I feel like the biggest bitch writing that post to @BreathlessCommotion. But few people will actually tell the truth and make people face themselves. I would rather do it as a faceless noone on the internet, if it means that their whole family are happier long term. I can cope with people maybe thinking I am evil if it actually does help. I am sorry @Breathless but it needs saying. And you can do this. We can all help to get you through it if that's what you need

I haven't read the full thread and will go back and do so as I know it has moved on, but I had this conversation with my friend tonight.

I got divorced 15 years ago, my ex husband had a good job, so I was always going on holiday, owned my own home (through him) and he was a very lovely guy, we divorced because he cheated on me.

However sitting here at nearly 40,in a small 2 bed flat, I do wonder if I did the right thing and I think if this had happened to me in my 30s rather than my 20s I may have turned a blind eye on his cheating to keep the lifestyle.

But I also look back on it with rose tinted glasses which is a wonderful thing and if I am going to be honest, without that divorce I wouldn't have my partner now or my son.

But (again) what if I had turned the blind eye to keep the lifestyle

@sobeyondthehills but then you would have been effectively selling yourself but tolerating a situation that you weren't genuinely happy with, simply for material gain. Could you really have done that? Fine if so, but it is definitely selling oneself.

@Loopyloopy But you have said yourself that your mum has enough to get by. Isn't that enough? That and her integrity? Or should she have compromised her integrity and (possibly) slept with a man she didn't want to be with, in order to have more money?

It's so sad the number of women who stay, or wish that they had turned a blind eye and stayed, who are reinforced by other women who think they SHOULD stay, to have access to extra cash, when they could possibly have enough (though not lots) if they had left.

It's ironic that sex workers, who often CANT have a basic level of material security without the tiny bit of money they make, are often looked down upon. Yet a woman who would have enough for basic material security, but continues to sleep with a man she would rather not be with, in order to have access to a higher than basic level of material security, is not looked down upon in the same way if there is a marriage license there.

I wonder just how low the monetary value of the transaction has to be, before it gets called prostitution instead of "financial security"?

@SirChing

I know 100% I made the right decision alot of my musings at the moment are because I am stuck in a small 2 bedroom flat with my family.

But also I think without kids maybe no, but with kids I would have done it, completely

Also, without going into a shit ton of detail, looking back at it, there was a few red flags, that I missed because I was young and stupid, thankfully left with no children and the cat and the rabbits went with me and I figured a way to deal with it

But I get why people stay, if that is for the kids, the animals or for the money.

Breathless:

"It feels like an awful lot for my dc to sacrifice just because I'm not happy.

If some handed me a lump sum/won the lottery I'd be gone in an instant."

For most, if their husband is a decent enough bloke, and not abusive, it comes down to money. Most would leave in a instant if they won the lottery.

But many can't stand the thought of leaving a nice house, good schools, comfortable lifestyle.

To end up living in a shit area, in a grimy rental, with hardly any money, and minimal pension. So another 50 years of hard slog.

The only thing his pair of hands did was drop more mess for me to clean up. Quite seriously, the moment he left, my domestic load plummeted - and I'd never washed his clothes, so it wasn't that. It was just the absence of considerable mess and dirt and rubbish all over surfaces and the floor. Every fucking day.

THIS! I outearned both husbands, worked full time while they picked and chose or just evaded work when they felt like it.
Also dirty bastards and expected me to clean, cook, garden, do all the childcare when I was at home.
It all started well enough with "I want to take care of you" but it was all bullshit.
Two entire marriages of them doing whatever they wanted and me being a maid.
I'll never get married again. The most I will ever have is a live out boyfriend and that's it.
Marriage is for mugs.

Every divorced person I know is lonely and unhappy. The men without exception have all gone in to remarry , usually someone younger .
It’s money in so many cases for women I think. They don’t want their children to be living in reduced circumstances or to suffer in any way.

The vast majority of women I know who have ended their marriage are far happier.
I can't think of anyone who has ended up unhappier.
I think too that most children/adults are glad their parents divorced when they look back.
I do think some women use the children as an excuse when in reality they want to keep living the pretence. Not blaming anyone here, the image of a happy married couple is deeply ingrained into most females from a young age.

I've just popped back to this thread and don't have time to read all the responses yet, but I just wanted to quickly say to @RosesandIris that that isn't my experience whatsoever. All the divorced women I know are very very happy.

And @SirChing is spot on with everything she said.

Notable the 'extra pair of hands'. My ex might have occasionally stacked the dishwasher (badly) but the mental stress of quietly seething whilst he sat on the sofa on his phone once again whilst I once again mopped the floor is a far bigger burden than just doing it all myself, without the thought that somebody should be helping.

Yes, the resentment felt from doing 90% of it, it is easier to do 100%

It is true about the image of the happy couple being ingrained. I was happier immediately after i left x but it took me a long time to appreciate the freedom and power over my own life that i have now, the security, the being accustomed to being on my own, so, much braver than i would have been
We are conditioned as women to not see the value in those things.

Fear of upsetting the children, psychological impact on children, having to downsize home again having impact on children, not being prepared to share children on key dates are a few compelling reasons I can think of!

Thank you @SirChing. Harsh, but exactly what I needed. I'm annoyed because I was so certain, I'd made my mind up, told him, was looking at places to move. And then bloody lockdown happened.

And now I have to do it all again, and be brave again.

RosesandIris

“Every divorced person I know is lonely and unhappy.”

Really? All the divorced people I know, certainly the women, feel that a weight has been lifted from them. I am so much happier post.

@SirChing - you were spot on with your post. Wish someone had said that to my parents when they stayed in their miserable relationship for years and dragged us all through their unhappiness.

It's financially ruinous for both sides. It takes an awful amount of guts. And the emotional toll is horrendous. Least of all the legal process which can take years.

I dated a senior VP of a financial company at the end of his divorce once. On the outside he has all the trappings. It was fling that never got any further. He had four children, one with a disability such that the child will never ever be independent. Stay at home wife who never ever worked and who had a few affairs. . They were both unhappy and I don't think he was an angel either. It took two years for the legal process to complete and cost thousands and thousands -more than some people earn in a year. He was earning at least £180k+ at the time but he was incredibly cash poor paying for two homes and four kids and maintenance to his wife so she could quite rightly live on and use for the children. I often paid for our dinner dates. I dated him after his divorce completed but I was the one that left and decided to keep it as a short fling that it was. He was emotionally and financially drained and at least financially drained until the youngest is 16 and also his pension was 50% taken. He worked out he would need to work till 70 before he could retire. I think they both should have stopped after child number 1 or 2 as they were unhappy for years is my my own personal opinion on his situation. But you see, it's not so easy. And I fully sympathetic to anyone who is in am unhappy marriage.

For me, I refuse to give up my financial independence and that has given me yards of leverage for my own marriage and happiness.

Blimey, just done that entitled to, and woukd be entitled to something. This changes everything! Thank you whoever recommended it.