To think that most people have children because it's just the done thing

[MaryMaryContrary]

AIBU to think that most people have children because it's just the done thing?

Given the massive upheaval children cause to your life and that we're living in 2020 when different lifestyles are more acceptable, surely we should all really be thinking through our reasoning for having children. Or is it just a hormonal urge?

If you don't think through the reasoning beforehand, do you think it can cause regret when the children arrive?

It’s interesting how pissed off some of you seem to be about this when you’re challenging me to come up with some kind of scientific explanation for it.

I'm not sure how asking for a scientific explanation of a scientific process ('biological urges') equates to being 'pissed off'. Biology is a science, after all.

All I can say is that based on my own experiences, I wanted a child even when it was unreasonable to have one under the circumstances, and my heart (or hormones, or whatever) trumped my brain!

Emotions often trump the brain. That doesn't mean it's a 'biological urge'.

I do not feel the need to justify my choices to @SerenDippitty (or anyone else) nor do I expect others to justify theirs.

You certainly don't have to justify your decision. But it's not unreasonable to ask someone to support the claims - about 'biological urges' - that they made. Otherwise it's just lazy use of language.

How do you explain the species out there who reproduce without having sex? Fish for example. Why do they bother? It can’t be for the pleasure of sex.

Stretching the point somewhat. We're not fish (!) We're mammals. Mammals reproduce by sexual activity. That is their 'urge'.

I think it varies. In my social circle, lots of people didn't have kids or waited a long time to have them, and I can think of far more people who didn't have children even though they wanted to than people who wandered into parenthood without stopping to think about it.

I agree that some people do have kids because it is "the done thing" but I think that is becoming less common, as we generally understand now that a fulfilling life is possible without being a parent. In days gone by, many women would not have been encouraged or supported to have a decent career, and so having children was something to occupy their time. Thank goodness that has changed.

Personally, I had always wanted kids, and have been lucky to have had them. I love them dearly and am very grateful for them. I would definitely make the choice to have them again. Is that "just" a biological urge? Perhaps, but it feels right to me.

I am so glad though that society is recognising that being child-free is a perfectly valid choice too. I find my child-free friends' lives as interesting and valid as my own, and hope they would never think that I thought otherwise.

How do you explain the species out there who reproduce without having sex? Fish for example. Why do they bother? It can’t be for the pleasure of sex.

So why do humans have sex for pleasure when they have no interest in reproducing?

I think it's a poor argument to claim that if a desire to have children is a "biological/hormonal urge", that must mean that every single woman on the face of the planet has it, and therefore no such urge must exist at all. Asexual individuals exist, but that doesn't mean that the desire for sex isn't considered an innate urge in most humans, and merely acknowledging the fact that the urge for sex is something that's biologically programmed into most of us isn't attempting to make asexuals feel bad or like there's something wrong with them. It's perfectly fine to not have an urge for reproduction just like it's perfectly fine not to have an urge to have sex - we should make that clear. But simply wanting to make it clear that it's fine and normal to not want to reproduce doesn't mean that we should deny the fact that for SOME people, it feels like an innate urge.

I think it's clear that in some people's experiences, desire for children is a visceral desire that seems to override the person's "normal" thoughts and desires, which is why people describe it as biological or hormonal. They're not trying to be scientists, of course you can't expect them to define what they're experiencing with scientific precision.

So why do humans have sex for pleasure when they have no interest in reproducing?

Of course humans have a desire for sex! But that doesn’t mean they don’t also have a desire (urge, instinct, drive) to reproduce.

Go on then, IcedPurple, what’s your explanation for why so many people continue to have children, long after contraception was invented and even though it flies in the face of all self interest?

Well @IcedPurple I know it’s hard to read someone’s tone in a post but you certainly come across as someone who is looking for an argument. I wasn’t making any “claims” about anything, just sharing my thoughts, based on nothing more than my own experiences. I didn’t realize I was expected to have a scientific explanation for my thoughts on Mumsnet. As for my “lazy” use of language, I’ll be sure to check with you before I post anything in future to make sure it meets your standards! 🙂

Asexual individuals exist, but that doesn't mean that the desire for sex isn't considered an innate urge in most humans, and merely acknowledging the fact that the urge for sex is something that's biologically programmed into most of us isn't attempting to make asexuals feel bad or like there's something wrong with them.

But sexual desire can be - and has been - studied and analysed scientifically, and the biological pathways are well-known. That's not the case with the supposed 'biological urge' to have children, which is why I'm asking.

I think it's clear that in some people's experiences, desire for children is a visceral desire that seems to override the person's "normal" thoughts and desires, which is why people describe it as biological or hormonal. They're not trying to be scientists, of course you can't expect them to define what they're experiencing with scientific precision.

Well no, but the words 'biological' and 'hormonal' do actually have meaning. It seems to me that people just throw the words out there without any thought, which is why I say it's a lazy use of language. Just because you have a very powerful desire for something, that doesn't neccessarily make it a 'biological' or 'hormonal' urge.

I didn't. Didn't long for them or dream of children. Just happened. As you explain, just because it was expected?

Trying to now think why I want kids some day. I guess I never saw myself not having them. I always enjoyed looking after children and other people I guess and am very family orientated so always wanted a family to take care of and make a fuss of if they let me lol.

Go on then, IcedPurple, what’s your explanation for why so many people continue to have children, long after contraception was invented and even though it flies in the face of all self interest?

There could be all sorts of reasons. Social conformity, desire to please a partner or parents, genuine love of children, desire to reproduce your genes, FOMA, love of family life, desire to make a person with someone you love... and so on. All or the above reasons and many more.

Nobody has yet explained how exactly this 'biological urge' to reproduce functions, and in what way (because again, biology is an observable science) those who do not have this 'urge' are objectively distinct.

When I returned to work after my wedding, I got quite a few emails from people (only men weirdly) with congratulation messages along the lines of “time for kids now!”

I’m not a maternal person whatsoever, I’ve never yearned for children. I think I’d like to have one with my husband but if it doesn’t happen I’ll be ok with that. I do think I’m quite abnormal in this feeling though 🙄

@IcedPurple Why do they have to? It’s Mumsnet for goodness sake!

@peperethecat I’m starting to realise how lucky we were. It wasn’t on our radar at all. And I have such huge guilt attached to the fact that so many people want a baby and struggle and we didn’t struggle and are just sort of giving it a go. It’s been a mind fuck. I had some mental health issues attached to it all in the beginning. I hope we can do the baby justice.

Hmm I do think there is some truth in it. In my late twenties though, I was really broody and desperate for kids however, I wasn't in the right place on my life to have them. Now I'm 33 and I had my first and I'm kind of like '"hmmm this would have been easier if I'd done it in my late twenties" and I definitely didn't have the same urge but I wasn't opposed to having kids and my husband was keen.
It's bloody hard, thankless, i feel like my life's been taken away from me but at the same time I love my baby, he is a joy and I'm glad I had him. If I wound the clock back I'm not sure I'd do it again though. However, now I have one I think I'll go for number two!

@Winterwoollies I'm sure you will. Good luck with it all.

I think far too many people have a child without really thinking it through very, very carefully and without making practical plans ,.. people think ‘oh lovely ... a baby’ without the thought of the sleepless nights, how good a parent their partner will be, financial issues, school issues, career issues etc etc etc. You only have to look at the threads on here ... I often ask myself how could people end up in such sad situations. .

I don’t agree. I live in a very unconventional bohemian place where alternative lifestyles are the norm. Pretty much everyone I know has kids.
I had them because I felt an overwhelming biological and primal urge to be a mother. I had a lot of unspent love to give and I wanted children to be a part of my experience on this earth.

Biological, primal urge is a great way of describing it for me too.

And that’s totally different to sexual desire in my case. I have a low sex drive, not particularly interested in it.

But having children, absolutely.

I had mine out of pure curiosity just shy of 40, having just finished a book and slightly at a loose end. He’s brilliant, but I’d planned not to have children, and the pregnancy was a pure whim. I wouldn’t have been surprised or at all upset if I hadn’t conceived.

I've never had the urge to have children or any maternal feelings growing up. When I met my partner at 22, he expressed how he wanted a big family.. I was honest with how I felt about children and that I can't be with a child/baby for more then 5 mins without handing them back to their parent.. However I wasn't going to write off the idea of having a child.

Fast forward 3 months after getting married (aged 24) I had a strong urge one night to say let's not use protection and that was the night my DC was conceived. I kept an open mind with pregnancy.. and luckily it was a great 9 months.. as well as my labour.. 100% do not regret the decision I made.. however I will be very careful next time I have the idea of reproducing... there's so many factors such as financial, space in the house..

It was exDH who really wanted kids rather than me. I'd have happily gone without, but alas we had 2 who I love more than words can say - but if I'm being honest, if I had my time again, I'd probably not have children. My biological urge has never been there and I'm quite selfish at heart. They are here now and they do make me happy but I'd have been equally, if not more, happy if I'd chosen a child free life

It's a mixture of biological and social factors. Biologically, it starts with the urge to have sex, then you have a whole array of instincts and behaviours that go with that - from finding a suitable mate to forming a relationship to making a 'home' to maternal (and paternal) care for the offspring. All observed in animals.
Human society builds up on that, adding social norms and socialised behaviour.
The 'done thing' is a social norm - it exists because children are valuable and beneficial to society.