Saw kids locked in a car, still feeling bad.

[yumyumh]

Sorry for bad title, I really didn't know what to put. This happened within the last couple of hours.

At local supermarket, (big chain and very big store). They have been allowing couples and small families to shop together, in guessing because if the magnitude of the shop it's considered safe.

As soon as I got out of the car I could hear a toddler babbling and realised it was coming from inside another car. This car was parked near the front of the shop, the front two windows were halfway down and in the back were two children; a toddler age child still in a car seat and an older child (old enough to not be in a car seat) but still I'd say no older then 10. No adult in the car with them or anywhere to be seen. (No idea how long they'd already been there)

The kids weren't crying or anything but they looked very bored and restless. I joined the que: thinking parents could be putting trolley away or back in a second etc. However, 20-25 mins later I'm at the front of the line and still no adult or parent in sight. A few other people had noticed and made comments, someone said a sarky comment about calling the police but no action had been taken. Another 5 mins go by, no parents to be seen.

I was really torn, I don't want to be nosy and in someone else's business but at the same time there's unattended children possibly locked (I had no way of knowing at that moment) in a car for almost half an hour plus the time from before I arrived.

I decided that if they were still there by the time I came out the shop I would definitely do something: report it to security as an issue/ police but also would just mention to the security on the door on my way in, just so they were aware and could keep an eye out. I also copied down the car registration and model.

Minutes later, a woman comes out the shop carrying 2 bags of shopping and goes over the the car and unlocks it (so the doors were locked), proceeds to put bags in etc. Then I'm let into the shop so I don't see anything else and as the kids are now with an adult I never mentioned anything to the shop security.

It's been on my mind though and I feel like Ive done something wrong. The woman showed up in the end so I didn't do anything in the moment, but I don't know if I should still do something and if so what could if I do? I have the car reg.

I'm also not trying to be nosy at all and she could have very valid reasons but I just find it quite dangerous to leave small children locked in a car for that amount of time. Especially when shop was allowing kids in with parents.

Meh... not ideal but given the current climate, surely you can see that the risks/hassle associated with taking young kids out shopping ( not least, them having to keep them still whilst they wait in the bloody long queues to get into the shop) far outweighs the risk of the children being kidnapped/the car setting on fire, etc. Get some perspective.

I might have agreed with you before all this started. But now? Likely a single parent doing their best in a tough situation. Leave it.

I left my 6 and 4 year olds in the car at Aldo the other day. They had a fight! But no one died, shopping got done and that's that. I didn't have a choice, single parent, their Dad working away on NHS frontline and no food deliveries to be had here.

I’ll come straight out and say I definitely would not have said anything different had this question been posed before this current situation. I’d always maintain that as long as the ten year old is sensible, there’s absolutely no problem leaving them in a car with a younger child. I was perfectly capable of looking after my siblings safely at that age, and I did.

My eldest also would have been absolutely fine sitting in the car with my youngest at those ages.

And just because the baying masses shriek about SS and logging it with the police, doesn’t mean that’s the right and sensible approach.

Just to clear a few things up:

The shop IS allowing kids in with parents and there were plenty of kids in the que and in the shop with parents (all who were not being verbally abused)

The older child was not 10 for sure, I only said looked no older then 10 because I'm rubbish at guessing ages but if I had to I'd say they were 7/8. Maybe that's my bad for being so vague but didn't think people would take it so literally. (I couldn't see if they were in a booster seat they just weren't in a full on car seat) And did not look old enough to own a mobile phone.

I was left in the car by my dad on a couple of occasions as a child and found the experience very traumatic and had no say in the matter. I'm not trying to be nosey or malicious at all and I do understand the many reasons (single mum, child with asthma) she did this that I have no way of knowing.

Wasn't it just last week some poster here was nearly crucified for leaving her 6 and 8 year olds for 20 minutes?

Can someone point me to the rules please...

Honestly, I think a 10-ish yr old is fine to be left in a locked car with a toddler. Probably safer than queuing in a car park for half an hour. I used to leave mine in the car when the oldest was around 10 all the time - paying for petrol, getting something from the shop etc. So much hassle getting them all out onto a car park/street.

I am doing this currently with my 9 & 5 year olds. It's an active decision - I judge it to be safer for them to be in the car with kindles, water & a snack than mixing with the general public. Windows open a little but not enough for an adult arm. Doors open from inside even if locked. Go & check on them when queue gets to near the shop before I go in.
I have given 9 year old instructions on various scenarios & told security guards they are there.
Why do you think you should over-rule my decision for my kids?? YABU

MN isn’t a hive mind...It stands to reason that answers might vary quite markedly on different threads, or perhaps the circumstances were different. Nuance does matter. I didn’t read that thread so I can’t comment.

In any case it would have been ludicrous to call the police because, OMG, some children are sitting perfectly safely in a car!

My god though, I'm constantly struck by how different parenting is once they're all at secondary school age and so much more independent. So much easier.

l work on a supermarket checkout.

l think parents are currently caught between a rock and a hard place. Especially single parents. We've had a surprising amount of customers in who have had one or two children with them. Even tiny ones.

There was a young couple at my till yesterday with a baby in the trolley seat which couldn't have been more than six months old. l think if that had been me, l'd rather one of us had gone to the supermarket alone, or one parent and the baby wait in the car while the other one shopped.

Of course you can't leave tiny ones alone in a car. But l've had at least three with older children (under 12, but not babies) at my checkout in a couple of days.
One lady yesterday had 2 children with her, and l had to ask the boy (about 7) to stand on the line behind the checkout, as he was standing right in front of me, about two feet away. To be fair, the mother did make him move straight away.
Another one on Saturday had two girls about 10 and 8. While the mother was loading her shopping onto the conveyor, the younger one was leaning right over the checkout, running her hands along the sides. The mother saw what she was doing, and made no attempt to stop her.
We sanitise the tills regularly. Conveyors, our touch screens and card readers. We wear gloves. We have hand sanitiser for ourselves and customers if they want to use it. The baskets and trolleys are being sanitised for each customer entering the store.
But it's still not good for children (or anyone) to be touching them. l appreciate that it's really difficult, if people need food shopping and they have to take their children. But if they're old enough, l'd much rather leave them in the car with a phone or tablet to keep them occupied than put them at risk in a supermarket.

Not everyone's observing social distancing. Most are ok, some have to be told more than once to 'stand on the line, until l've served this customer, please'. They ignore the direction arrows in the aisles, wander about glued to their phones, not looking where they're going, and actually bumping into staff and other customers.
A surprising amount are still paying with cash. Counting out the notes and coins on the back of the checkout where we put the items after we've scanned them. Putting their (in some cases, quite clearly unsanitary) shopping bags on there to pack their shopping. l've had bags handed to me to pack which are filthy. Mouldy inside, in some cases.

So with the best will in the world, we can clean til we're blue in the face. lt's impossible to keep a safe environment if people aren't being responsible themselves.

ln that situation, l think leaving a couple of older children in a car for 20 minutes-half an hour is the lesser of two evils, if they can be trusted to stay there and stay safe with a phone or something to amuse them. The ideal situation would be for them to be at home, but it isn't an ideal world.

To be fair, l think l'd be bored and restless if l was sitting in a car for half an hour with nothing to do. But it's the price we're having to pay to stay safe just now.
OP, you were kind to keep an eye on them. Maybe you were the only one who noticed them, maybe not. lf you'd identified a problem, you could have alerted a member of staff to put out a PA for the owner of the car.
l don't think you could have done anything else. The mother was probably feeling the same way. We don't always have a choice, unfortunately.

Parents can win

Berated in the shop
Berated for this

In usual situation I’d worry but it’s extraordinary circumstances

60+ messages and I’m the first?

Good lord, what is wrong with people??!!

Keep your sticky beak out love.

2 kids safe and warm and able to get out if needed, and I dont believe you that other people were making comments. Or that the older child is suddenly 7 or 8 instead of 10 now.

Funny how given the general consensus is that she was ok to leave the kids in the car - the age has now been revised downwards to 7 by the OP...

it's not ideal but nothing is at the moment. She could well have been a single parent and if the older child is responsible then better to leave them in the car. 9/10 is ok, 6/7 definitely not unless it was for a very short time. I'm not sure what you think might happen to them in a supermarket carpark in broad daylight.
In the 80s my mum use to frequently leave me and OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN (shudder) in the car while she popped into the shops. Can't remember if she locked the car or not. Suffice to say we survived. I know things were slightly different then though.

I leave my kids in the car, have done since they were old enough not to get out and run off. My youngest has ASD and wouldn’t cope in a supermarket. Luckily I have had delivery slots but if I can’t get one then I would have to take dd and leave her in the car whilst I shop, she’s happy in the car with a packet of crisps and a magazine 😁

I was left in the car by my dad on a couple of occasions as a child and found the experience very traumatic

Traumatic? How on earth was it traumatic? Short of him leaving you in the car in a gang neighbourhood I don’t see what the issue could be.

Just because shop is allowing kids, not everyone think the same. I would rather not take my children into the supermarket.
Op, you are being nosy. In a normal world, leaving the kids in a car might be dangerous. But now, it maybe more dangerous to bring kids in. Their choice, not yours. Mind your own business.

It's interesting how your estimate of the older child's age has now decreased by 2/3 years.
I'm sure the mum wouldn't have left her with the toddler if she didn't think she was sensible to keep an eye on her sibling.
The doors were locked for their safety.
The older child more than likely had use of a mobile phone and could call mum if any problems occurred.
If Mum had taken the kids in with her, no doubt she would have been judged for doing that too.

@Notashandyta
What a pointless comment then, if you're choosing not to believe the things I've said?

Unless you were there how do you know other people weren't making comments and have the cheek to call me a liar? Laughable

And as I mentioned I originally said "no older then 10" because I am rubbish at guessing ages so didn't want to assume, which MANY people took very literally as the child was 10 years old and also in that assumed they had a mobile phone, they I never mentioned?! So clarified the false assumption by then guessing the child was around 7/8 which is very fair. It's not changing the story it's just adding some clarifications.

@Bertucci

Argh. I was so close there - almost at the end and then BAM! you got your Que in

I'm a single mum, my kids are 10 and 12 and I have usually been leaving them at home to do the weekly shop, as I judge it safer than bringing them, although I'm sure some MNers would think they are far too young.

On two occasions, I took them with me as other factors altered my risk assessment and in both stores no-one batted an eyelid at me coming in with them, even though they're both nearly as tall as me.

I imagine the mum did a mental risk assessment and decided it was safe. It isn't something I'd have done (definitely not with windows open) but we all have different perceptions of risk. I certainly wouldn't have called the police if the kids were happy and I could see they were ok.

What? I used to wait in the car all the time when I was a kid, I asked to. I personally wouldn't do it, I'd be insanely paranoid about the toddler, but it's hardly the end of the world. Had there been any issues I'm sure the much older child could get out the car and ask for help. The car is unlockable from the inside.