To think DH has crossed a line

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

DH has been having a mid life crisis, for want of a better way to describe it, for nearly 2 years now. We’ve been together for 10 years and have 2 kids. He helps in the house, pulls his weight (mostly, when not working his v long hours) with the kids and makes me laugh like a drain. But he’s been struggling and it’s a bit like living with a dementor - he can’t see the joy in life at all, everything is difficult or awful or sighworthy. Nothing is positive or funny and he’s a complete workaholic- he’s talk about work til midnight most nights if I let him.

Our eldest has some challenges. Tonight she has played up. He ended up coming in and telling her that not only would he need to call the police because of her behaviour but that he wished we’d never had the children. He’s so dramatic about everything and can’t see that this is really unhelpful.

Last week he told me that he wished he was dead because the children were playing up so much.

I’ve begged him to go to counselling.

He won’t.

I’m slowly losing all respect for him. He huffs and puffs and it’s like having a third child. I’m constantly having to be super positive to offset his negativity.

The irony is we’ve had the nicest day we’ve had in ages.

The other day I actually found myself imagining what it would be like to be divorced. There’s got to be more to life than this. Not that it’s something I want, and the children would be devastated. But these small things keep happening and I can’t forget them. It’s building and I don’t know what to do, except repeat once again that it’s not acceptable. But I’m not his mother or his therapist.

AIBU to think he needs to get himself under control and stop saying things like that in front of the children?

If he gets it under control and shows he can make a change, and is willing to talk to them about not meaning what he said and being sorry about it, it could be really helpful, and less damaging than a divorce. But if he keeps up with the nasty and negative comments, you will have to take action. You were quite dismissive of it being depression, but depression presents differently in men and women, so it may be that. Whatever it is, he needs to get some help to work out what is going on, and change to being more positive behaviour.

Only you know what it's like. Only you know what he says and does and how the children react to it and how it affects them

Actually I don't think this is true. I have often seen mothers here swearing that their children love their abusive fathers and only act up with the mother, when the fact is that the poor children are so insecure with their fathers that they are constantly seeking their love.

The same with being in an abusive relationship, it becomes so normal that the person being abused doesn't see it.

Did he actually want to have kids?

That is an unbelievably cruel thing to say to your child(ren) and just can’t get my head around why he would ever say that, unless he meant it and that is his truth. In which case, no amount of counselling or therapy will change his fundamental opinion and his cruelty towards your kids will just become worse and he’ll find more subtle ways to put them down in years to come.

Just think, if he’s said that to your child now, who is only 8, imagine what other spiteful things he could say further down the line. Wishing death on them? Something worse? You are literally setting your kids up for a lifetime of self-esteem issues, abusive relationships and therapy.

I'm sorry you couldn't reach a resolution today OP. I agree that it sounds like he's making all the right noises but it will gradually slip back until you ask yourself how you got back here again. Please bear in mind the goal is for you and the kids to end up happy, if he can't help with that then it needs to be without him.

He won't change ... you are making excuses for him. You will find the strength to get rid of him one day.

Is he a drinker?

The same with being in an abusive relationship, it becomes so normal that the person being abused doesn't see it.

I'd partly agree with that. Quite often there is a lightbulb moment - which is what's happened here. OP sees what's happening and knows it's not right, otherwise she wouldn't have posted.

Morning all.

Managed to get some sleep last night, so feeling a bit better.

He’s taken today off work to help with homeschool and ‘to sort some stuff out’. No idea what that means And to be honest I’m feeling really really cross with him today.

No sign of him doing any kind of research / phone calls.

He’s not much of a drinker, we shared a bottle of wine yesterday over dinner, but that’ll be it now for a while.

I am absorbing all you are saying, I promise.

I find it frustrating that he won’t seek out help. Whoever said it’s like being with an alcoholic where they have to realise they need help - it’s like that.

I’m just questioning everything.

Make it clear.
"You seek help or you leave."

Or just wait for the next angry words or outburst and actually act and tell him to leave open the door and make him go.... there and then.

He must not have the option of not seeking help. It really doesn't sound as if you have got through to him at all if he thinks he has any choice in the matter. Change or divorce, those are his two options - carry on as normal isn't on the list. You're going to have to spell that out to him. And then he'll throw the 'oh but I took the day off to help homeschool the kids' card in your face, but don't let that get to you - he needs to be supportive and decent every day, not just when he feels threatened.

It’s not ideal to look at things primarily in terms of him needing/seeking “help”.

Any MH issue(s) or problems he has are, of course, important.

But the key problems are how, for 2 years, he has treated you, and the DC.

In one of your posts you explicitly said that in your view he didn’t owe you an apology. But he has been crappy to YOU.

“Help” for his MH/problems (and/or abusiveness) may or may not lead to positive changes in his behaviours.

OP, you sound like a really great woman, who has been doing it all for a long time.

I don't believe you can turn your MH issues and depression on and off the way he does.

I think he has gotten into a habit of being a grumpy man and you have indulged him by being as supportive as possible.

This has slowly escalated and morphed into him being a really spoilt, cranky, abusive fxxk....in which the whole family is his emotional punching bag.

How he has treated your children is truly unforgivable.

Combined with his behaviour over the past two years, rest assured that despite your assurances to her, she will NEVER forget this time.

He is not a good man.
He is a very selfish man.

I think he needs to leave the house.

I would be telling him today that you would like him to leave.

That his abuse of his children has gone too far and that you no longer want him in the family home.

This is when you need to be very strong.

Do NOT accept pleas or promises.

Its too late.

He needs to leave the home.

He needs a very firm dose of reality.

Kindly meant, but you have allowed him to think he can get away with abusing your two utterly defenseless children.

I would shine a huge light NOW on him and tell him you want him OUT of the home.

This IMO is your best hope of him getting a grip on himself and dealing with his issues.

Anything else, is you facilitating an abuser in your home.

I genuinely believe you don't want to do this.

It's very hard on you.
But he needs to finally realise his behaviour is NO longer acceptable and it is in the families best interests that he is out of the home...

Let Mr. Happy explain that to his colleagues....fxxker

He’s taken the day off work INSTEAD of seeking help / addressing his behaviour.

He will spend some time with the children / do some things around the house. Then when the Op tries to address the big issue, he will say

“ Look I did everything you wanted,I even took time off work to do X and Y. Nothing I do Is ever good enough for you is it? You are so unreasonable and demanding . I work so hard to provide for us all and this is the thanks I get “

< Flounce>

If he has a dramatic flair, he might throw in

“ I might as well be dead / you’d be happier if I was dead “ .

BTW that’s your cue to rush over and say

“ No you are an amazing husband and father , I love you so much, I’m so sorry I even mentioned this and I never will do again because obviously it’s too stressful for you. And if I do you will kill yourself and it will be my fault “.

I think he is taking the day off to try and pacify you that he can do the ‘family’ thing as in do homeschooling etc. It’ll last a day or two so he thinks he’s shown you he’s not all bad and then it will slip back to old ways sadly.

Yea, indeed, as
@ notmynigel
@star

have written, classic abuser, sees you pulling away, needs to rope you in and pacify you.

How well he can suddenly start to exercise some self control, play with the girls, homeschool....aka...like a normal father.

All this confirms he's not depressed, he's just an abusive fxxker, who uses two defenceless children as an emotional punching bag.

I'm even more convinced he needs to be put out of the house.

You gave him an ultimatum councilling or separation

He's chosen not to do councilling.

His response to being told that you are considering divorce because of how he's been behaving, is to take a day off work?

Oh come ON. If he wasn't such a nasty bastard then this would be so pathetic as to be utterly laughable.

I agree with everything that billy1966 has said. He;s not taking this remotely seriously. He needs to go.

I haven't read everyone's comments and I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I'm really intrigued on what his own upbringing was like.

You mentioned he's turning into his father - what was his dad like? How was depression/anxiety addressed when he was growing up? What values was he taught when it came to parenting?

I'm not condoning how he spoke to your children - that was really mean and cruel - but I'm just wondering where it stems from and whether he doesn't really know himself why he does it because it's all learnt behaviour that he's never questioned?

He does need to see a counsellor but I'm wondering whether his resistance lies in some of the answers to the above questions?

Fantastic post @billy1966, so true

I wish people would back off a bit. Why do people feel like they need to validate themselves by pushing this woman into divorcing her husband? The continue wave of pressure is absurd when we have at best a snapshot of a person as told by someone else. Only the OP knows what is best for her.

I don't think anyone expects her to divorce right this minute.

But what people are pointing out is that her children are vulnerable and that if things are bad enough that she felt the need to issue an ultimatum (get help or get divorced), then she needs to stand by it otherwise he'll carry on regardless, knowing that she will never act on what she says.

I don't know if you have read "Why Does He DO That". You should. Every woman should.

The sudden spurt of positive activity is a pretty standard response when a man is called out on his behavior. Proving it isn't true doesn't usually last long, and their goal is for things to go back to what they consider normal.

I don't think I've ever seen an ultimatum work. It's never that simple as he's a selfish fucker and he could change if only he wanted to. If it was we wouldn't really need half of the clinical psychologists we have. Personally I'd make the couples counselling appointment and let him know you need him to show up.

The OP has a hell of lot of soul searching to do here. How will she feel being a single mum? What if he contributed nothing financially? Remarries and has more kids? At the very least she could go to counselling herself before issuing divorce ultimatums based on a group of people behind a screen. If she is going to divorce then it needs to come from a place of strength. If you need the internet to tell you to divorce I'd wager you're not ready. Maybe it's where she ends up but I think the ultimatum wasn't a good move.

Boswello how do you know OP acted on the advice of a bunch of strangers on the internet? By the time people post on here, they are often already at breaking point where something needs to change.

And an ultimatum is indeed a high risk move, but sometimes it is the only one available. Do you really think the OP has gone straight from 'tried none of the other options' to 'nuclear detonation' just like that?

And lastly, joint counselling with someone who clearly has abusive traits is not recommended. The fault lies with him and his behaviour. He is the one who needs to change. He needs individual counselling for him, to get to the cause of his unacceptable behaviour. OP can get counselling for herself to support her and come to terms with the reality she finds herself in, but it isn't for her to fix him.

Absolutely an ultimatum not clearcut plus what if next time he gets angry it's not really 'that bad', does that count, the line is hard if it's a wait and see situation.The other thing I know I considered is if it's over he'll now be on his own with the kids, without my intervening etc.. that's an important consideration too. It's not up to op to book his counselling tho, it has to come from him and it his responsibility to deal with his issues. This was something I found hard but a few years on I'm very clear on those boundaries, his behaviour is his responsibility and only his.