To think DH has crossed a line

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

DH has been having a mid life crisis, for want of a better way to describe it, for nearly 2 years now. We’ve been together for 10 years and have 2 kids. He helps in the house, pulls his weight (mostly, when not working his v long hours) with the kids and makes me laugh like a drain. But he’s been struggling and it’s a bit like living with a dementor - he can’t see the joy in life at all, everything is difficult or awful or sighworthy. Nothing is positive or funny and he’s a complete workaholic- he’s talk about work til midnight most nights if I let him.

Our eldest has some challenges. Tonight she has played up. He ended up coming in and telling her that not only would he need to call the police because of her behaviour but that he wished we’d never had the children. He’s so dramatic about everything and can’t see that this is really unhelpful.

Last week he told me that he wished he was dead because the children were playing up so much.

I’ve begged him to go to counselling.

He won’t.

I’m slowly losing all respect for him. He huffs and puffs and it’s like having a third child. I’m constantly having to be super positive to offset his negativity.

The irony is we’ve had the nicest day we’ve had in ages.

The other day I actually found myself imagining what it would be like to be divorced. There’s got to be more to life than this. Not that it’s something I want, and the children would be devastated. But these small things keep happening and I can’t forget them. It’s building and I don’t know what to do, except repeat once again that it’s not acceptable. But I’m not his mother or his therapist.

AIBU to think he needs to get himself under control and stop saying things like that in front of the children?

He needs to stop cleaning and working and just play with the children.

OP I’m a retired psychotherapist, can you pass on this message to him?
When I was working I made sure every new client heard this from me in some shape or form. Every new client is scared, no exceptions. Taking the plunge into therapy or counselling is not a sign of failure; it’s the opposite, it’s a sign of having the belief that you can change. It’s an act of bravery.

I wish you and him the best of luck. I know his behaviour has been awful, truly awful, but he doesn’t sound to me like an out and out abuser, please get him to get some help. Lots of people are doing online consults a the moment by the way so lockdown is no excuse to avoid it.

How devastated would they be if he says things like I wish I’d never had kids? Maybe they would be happy to see the back of him. Think of that you’re doing to their self esteem. Just read threads on here on what low self esteem can mean for adults.

This sounds like xDH and me, 3 years ago.

He was very definitely suffering from depression / anxiety / both, and had been for years. He refused to get help, insisting that he could manage far better by himself.

His behaviour and moods got worse and worse and he became more and more abusive.

By the time he did get help I had lost all respect for him, and we split up. I've never been so relieved. We co-parent fairly well now, but he can still be an abusive, stonewalling twat.

IMO OP, if things don't change your love for him will disappear as will your respect for him.

If he's refused counselling or GP then you need to follow through and book a solicitor

He won’t go to GP. He said no to counselling. I asked him what he was afraid of.

Divorce it is then.

He needs to understand that if he wants to stay married to you then he has to go to the GP and seek counselling. If he doesn't want to do those then he is accepting that his marriage is over.

You know the reason why he doesn't want to go? It's because it means admitting to strangers that he bullies his own children. And he cannot bear the thought of NOT being seen as a 'good bloke', so he'd rather sweep it all under the carpet and keep it behind closed doors by promising you that he'll change.

Talk is cheap - actions speak louder than his words. I find it very telling that he cares more about his reputation than his family; if he was genuinely concerned and remorseful then he would do whatever it takes to get the help he needs to change. As it stands if you let him stay then he's learned that all he has to do is make a promise to you and that's enough.

As a PP pointed out, you told him it was non-negotiable. He's refused - if you don't stand by your words then any further conversations you have with him about his behaviour will carry no weight at all, because he'll know that it's just empty threats.

After last night I'd be asking him to leave and go to a family member whilst he has a good hard think about the future of his marriage. I can't imagine staying married to someone who bullies his own children - why would you want this future for yourself?

Yes. The ball is not in his court; it’s in yours.

Is he going to apologise to the children and tell them that he loves them? Does he have a strategy for explaining to them why those words came out of his mouth and that it wasn't because of them?

It's REALLY important that the toxicity of that interaction is mitigated somehow.

Can you leave some notes to yourself somewhere? A summary of your chat and your action plan to do list - stuff like book solicitor, run finances through entitled.to website, ideas for custody arrangements, cost of filing for divorce. Seeing it in black and white, seeing you mean what you said, might be a nudge?

I think the op May have had a typo with go in place of gp as an option... apologies op if not, either way he's refused all options but forwards. I have had some experience of this tho, arguably, not reaching the level of those comments/actions. In dh's case it was following the family cycle.of authoritative father role ie do what I say or I lose it and was so completely at odds with my approach and upbringing, and his personality prior to children. He did go toto counselling, not for long enough imo and he is on ADs, that I felt the gp handed out too easily without much discussion (I feel his emotional issues more suitable for talk therapy) and he has made a massive effort. Sometimes the red mist descends and I have zero time for it and he apologises to dc if it happens and I'm v clear with dc that it shouldn't have. I still feel.torn at times over whether I did the right thing.. but I'm always vigilant and it's hugely different at least now. My big thing really is, will my dc say 'Why did mum not say anything?' , as that's what I think of mil... they haven't supported him as an adult much either but that's a different story.

How old is he

Well you have given him an ultimatum and he has chosen not to get help. The ball is in your court now, not his. Your children have to come first and as I said earlier on this thread, I was damaged by a similar father and a part of me does still resent my mother for staying.

So he’s refused to see a Gp and/ or a counsellor ? He’d rather get a divorce then.

Or he knows you don’t mean it and is calling your bluff. He will just mutter some vague apologies and try a bit harder with the kids from a few days until your anger / resolve goes away.

Is that it ?

I was very struck by this post from a PP.

You might think that the front/role you're playing, giving pep talks etc, trying to jolly everyone along is helping the kids. In a way it is, but in another it's modelling for them that the family is not one where people (well, anyone except your husband) are allowed to share how they really feel, and mentioning anything unpleasant that they're feeling/going through it not ok. So they are not getting as much deep emotional support at home as they would benefit from

You are inadvertently setting up your children to be out of touch with their own feelings. Because you all have to pretend to be happy when dad is in one of his moods. He is allowed to sulk but we all have to be like Pollyanna.

This is very unhelpful and makes them target for abusers in their on friendships / relationships. First , because they don’t have good boundaries and second because it’s not safe to tell, everything should swept under the carpet.

Only dad’s feelings count.

And if you are not in touch with your own body it’s easy to overeat / drink too much.

We have had frank talks. He stands there looking hang dog and going i know, I know.

Then nothing changes.

He won’t go to GP. He said no to counselling. I asked him what he was afraid of.

I asked him if he would think it acceptable that one of our DDs was treated this way by a partner. He said no.

He accepts the comments and the anger has to stop.

So it’s over to him. Whether he finds some solutions and makes some calls, or not.

You are no further forward now than you have been after any of your previous frank discussions. He has said no to any suggestions of help, he hasn't been able to find a solution on his own previously, what makes you think he will now?

He has no intention of changing his behaviour, he thinks just apologising and agreeing with you about how it has to stop and he will do it but in his own time and his own way and then carry on as before is enough because it has been every single time.

I doubt very much that your children adore being treated and spoken to by their dad in this way.

You and they need to get out of this toxic situation, a lot of damage will have already been done to the children over the last two years, how much more damage do you think it is fair for their father to inflict on them?

Go to a solicitor and start divorce proceedings, you have no other option.

The ball isn't in his court, it's in yours. He's said no to GP, no to counselling, so it's option 3 - tomorrow you contact a solicitor. It really has to be that simple. Anything else sends him the message that you don't mean it and that he can continue as he is. And that your children will have to continue to suffer from his awful moods.

I know how hard this is, I've made the same choice. But you have to do it.

And also don’t get stuck on the idea that divorce is always damaging for children. It really really doesn’t need to be. There are many children who are perfectly happy and draw up to be normal adults despite their parents divorcing! Yes it’s a tough time, but you are already in a tough time now so maybe see it as a necessary transition phase rather than something to be avoided?

We’re still talking. He says he needs time to think and that he’s still reflecting on our conversation this morning.

He has apologised to both girls and told then he loves them.

He’s having some time doing Lego with dd2 now and has just come back from taking dd1 for a bike ride.

I’m still trying to process what you’re all saying and what happens now.

He said he doesn’t want a divorce and he loves us all. I said it’s time he starts showing it.

You say mid life crisis HOW OLD IS HE

A shake up may be what he needs right now but talk is cheap and he should be showing you sustained change, and a commitment to being the husband and father you app deserve. Its easy to say that he doesn't want to divorce and loves you all, but he needs to show it whilst really committing to change.

He said he doesn’t want a divorce and he loves us all. I said it’s time he starts showing it.

Tell him he may not want a divorce, but it's entirely in his own hands whether or not he gets one. You have to follow through on your ultimatum and see a solicitor, just to find out what the next steps would be. And sadly you have to be prepared to go through with it if he does nothing constructive. Don't let him fob you off.

He says he needs time to think and that he’s still reflecting on our conversation this morning. - if he doesn't want a divorce, there's nothing for him to think about. He has to do, not think.

He will make an effort for a short while (I predict 2-3 weeks) and then fall back into his old behaviour. You will repeat this pattern until either you give up and just accept that this is your life now, or he leaves you for another life/woman who doesn't make him feel guilty about being an arsehole.

In the meantime your children will learn about relationships and parenting from his behaviour and your marriage.

OP don't lose your resolve. You have minimum requirements - GP and counselling. Stick to them or get a divorce.

I have said lots of things, including my counsellor / go / solicitor line.

That scared him.

He won’t go to GP. He said no to counselling.

Well there you go then. He’s not prepared to take the steps necessary to effect change.

So it’s over to him. Whether he finds some solutions and makes some calls, or not.

No, it’s over to you. You gave him the ultimatum,

either he makes an appointment with [counsellor] or I get an appointment with a solicitor

Time to phone the solicitor I’m afraid.

He’s just telling you what you want to hear.Lego and a bike ride. Big deal.

It's good that he's talking, but you need to give him a timeframe, otherwise he will just pretend, kick it all into the long grass and get away with it. Ultimatums do work if you are prepared to stick to them. I gave my late husband the duration of the school summer holidays to decide whether he wanted rehab or divorce and he dithered the entire time, ran out on our family holiday in Devon so he could be home and drink, and tried to talk me out of it the day before the deadline - you have to be strong and firm no matter where you set your end date. But there absolutely has to be one.