To think DH has crossed a line

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

DH has been having a mid life crisis, for want of a better way to describe it, for nearly 2 years now. We’ve been together for 10 years and have 2 kids. He helps in the house, pulls his weight (mostly, when not working his v long hours) with the kids and makes me laugh like a drain. But he’s been struggling and it’s a bit like living with a dementor - he can’t see the joy in life at all, everything is difficult or awful or sighworthy. Nothing is positive or funny and he’s a complete workaholic- he’s talk about work til midnight most nights if I let him.

Our eldest has some challenges. Tonight she has played up. He ended up coming in and telling her that not only would he need to call the police because of her behaviour but that he wished we’d never had the children. He’s so dramatic about everything and can’t see that this is really unhelpful.

Last week he told me that he wished he was dead because the children were playing up so much.

I’ve begged him to go to counselling.

He won’t.

I’m slowly losing all respect for him. He huffs and puffs and it’s like having a third child. I’m constantly having to be super positive to offset his negativity.

The irony is we’ve had the nicest day we’ve had in ages.

The other day I actually found myself imagining what it would be like to be divorced. There’s got to be more to life than this. Not that it’s something I want, and the children would be devastated. But these small things keep happening and I can’t forget them. It’s building and I don’t know what to do, except repeat once again that it’s not acceptable. But I’m not his mother or his therapist.

AIBU to think he needs to get himself under control and stop saying things like that in front of the children?

By the way, depression does not make a person cruel. That "quality" was there way before any depression.

He sounds as though he is suffering from burn out

Imagine your reaction to a stranger saying those things to your daughter if she was misbehaving in a supermarket. Would you just smile meekly or say something? Why are you letting your children be emotionally abused by someone that's supposed to love them no matter what? He's not lovely, he's not a great father and your kids WILL remember these things he says and that you didn't stop it. 2 years is too long to have exposed your children to this abuse. He's not willing to change, it's time to protect your children and make him go

He sounds as though he is suffering from burn out

For 2 YEARS?

No. Its emotional abuse. No excuse for that. Plenty of people have MH issues and manage not to tell their children they wish they were never born. Thats undiluted cruelty- plain and simple.

We have talked.

Well, I talked. He either nodded or stared ahead.

He has apologised. I said it wasn’t me he needed to apologise to, it is the kids.

I have said lots of things, including my counsellor / go / solicitor line.

That scared him.

He won’t go to GP. He said no to counselling. I asked him what he was afraid of.

I asked him if he would think it acceptable that one of our DDs was treated this way by a partner. He said no.

He accepts the comments and the anger has to stop.

So it’s over to him. Whether he finds some solutions and makes some calls, or not.

I think he still doesn’t realise how serious this is.

He’s cleaning the bathroom.

Good for you OP!

I'm afraid it doesnt bode well that he wont seek help though- thats a huge red flag to me. If he really wanted to change for all your sakes, why wouldn't he get help?

Its going to be very difficult for him to do this alone. I think you need to brace yourself for a bumpy ride and that this isnt going to be fixed if he wont seek help.

I really, really hope I am wrong.

that if we died no one would care

@aurynne That's awful. :( xxx How are you in yourself, now?

But what happens next time OP? Because you know there will be a next time don’t you? If he’s refusing counselling etc he is in effect telling you that nothing will change and you will have to like it or lump it.

I don’t think you can resolve this I’m afraid. You are either stuck as things are or you have to make some steps towards separating.

@NoMoreDickheads surprisingly well, both me and my sister. We have both thrived and became sensible, independent people who support each other and fully understand what we both went thorugh, despite the experiences. Truth be said, we first needed to escape the oppressive environment of our parents' house.

Thank you so much for asking :)

He isn't bothered at all, otherwise he would face up to his issues and seek help for them.

Sorry that sounds harsher than I intended. What I meant was it’s nit all up to you..he has to take some action . But if he doesn’t then he isn’t leaving you with any choice. It’s v sad for you and the kids but you can’t fix him.

I think you should contact your solicitor (or whatever it is that you threatened him with) regardless, because it already seems like he’s just trying to pretend things are normal and won’t make any tangible changes. Cleaning the bathroom is just a distraction from the important life decisions he’s putting off. Your children deserve better.

It sounds as if you gave him the option of counselling / GP / solicitor. He said no to 1 and 2... so are you going to follow through on number 3?

Otherwise there needs to be some other option 3 - maybe give it a week and see if he can demonstrate change? Ultimately, if he refuses to change, you're going to have to.

I'm concerned he's just nodded at you, refused to do anything, and now things will continue as normal...

DH had bad depression last year, and initially refused to do anything about it. Sounds harsh but I had just changed career, doing all the work around the house and looking after our 2 year old.

I was knackered and couldnt do on. I told him he got help, both ADs and counselling, or we would be splitting up and he would have to move out.

Now I didn't really want to do any of that, but he had to believe I meant it.

Took bloody ages, but he did and still does both. He speaks to counseller on the phone currently and still on ADs. The difference in him is huge and most importantly HE feels better and back to his old self.

Do you think this is more damaging for the kids than having to go through a divorce

Yes. Growing up in a toxic household where they are emotionally abused on a regular basis is extremely damaging for children. It affects their self esteem and skews their view of how normal relationships should be.

These boards are full of posts written by adults suffering from low self esteem and anxiety issues as a result of growing up with emotional abuse.

Just seen your update. So the vile abusive knob refuses to go to the GP or to counselling?

I think you should make your appointment with the solicitor. And make plans to leave. The damage to your children will already be happening and possibly even contributing to your eldest's challenging behaviour. You have a duty to protect your children and the longer you stay the worse the damage will be.

Do you have any support in RL? Even in lockdown you are allowed to leave abusive relationships. Start making plans now.

Do you really think he’s going to change, if he’s been like this for 2 years , and he’s refusing to get help?
A mild talking to and that’s him a changed man?
It’s not over to him.
What would you say to a friend or family member who confided in you they were being treated like this.

* By the way, depression does not make a person cruel. That "quality" was there way before any depression.*

Disagree
My mother was not a cruel person. For 22 years old my life.
Depression took hold and she said and behaved cruelty at points

This next paragraph does not in any way excuse the way he has been talking to your DD which emphatically is unacceptable and needs to change.

A few years ago I was at breaking point with my dh. I read a book about love languages which I found incredibly helpful. It's American schmaltz but it did get me thinking about the differing ways in which people experience and express love. If a couple has different primary/preferred "love languages" they can misunderstand each other's motivations and feel unloved or unregarded.

Your relationship fundamentally sounds not dissimilar from mine back then. My primary live language is "quality time". I felt like dh should want to play with the children and spend time with them when he finished his long hours of work. Instead he would busy himself with jobs around the house; putting on the washing, stacking the dishwasher etc. It made me feel like he felt I hadn't done a good enough job of tidying; like a non-expressed judgement.

The love languages book revealed that dh's primary love language is "acts of service". Him doing jobs WAS him expressing his love, and in return I was snippy with him because I felt judged. In return he feels loved when one of us does something nice like bring him a cup of tea, more than if I say watching a TV programme with him or something.

Once I understood this things got much easier. I stopped feeling judged so much. I won't lie, I wish he was a "quality time" person. But then I guess our house really would be a mess so maybe we do balance each other.

He’s told you how he feels, he’s not prepared to change. He’s had two year to help himself change and he hasn’t, now he won’t go to the GP or counselling when you’ve asked him. Maybe he thinks there isn’t a problem?

Listen to his actions op. They speak a lot louder than platitudes.
What his his plan to stop abusing his children.
He’s left the ball in your court really.

My ex never went to the gp until after we left.
I regret the time that I wasted on trying to ‘help’ him get better. While he did nothing to help himself.
I’m regret that at time’s I put his well-being about my children. Because I thought that was the best way to protect them.

Not wanting to pile on the pressure but you've told him it's either councillor or leave. He said no to the councillor, if you don't now ask him to leave, he'll know that what you've said is just words, won't be long before he reverts back to type.

I was married to this man. It got too much and we started on couples counselling. It became clear he was the problem not me (although I wasn't perfect) so the therapist encouraged him to go alone. Fast forward a year and there's tension during lockdown but he's/we're so much better. So my advice would be couples counselling to share the problem although it may end up just him going but only once he's prepared to accept his role in the problem.

I’m afraid I agree with PP, @StuckInPollyannaMode. You’ve somewhat backed yourself into a corner in that you’ve given him an ultimatum and he hasn’t conceded. If you now don’t talk to a solicitor, he will see that he can carry on as before because you didn’t really mean it. Even if it’s really not what you want, I think you need to be seen to be acting on your ultimatum or he will simply not take you seriously.

Another option that you may find helpful (not as an alternative to a solicitor but alongside that option) is to see a marriage guidance counsellor alone. They may help you to make the right decisions for yourself and the children, whatever those decisions are.

Whatever the reasons for his behaviour, you can’t help if he refuses to do anything to change or get help. Only he can fix it. I’m sorry you are going through this.

Please don't let him use the excuse of lockdown. A friend is having excellent video calls with their therapist and she and her husband are about to begin couples therapy online sessions

He needs to see a counsellor to make proper changes. Perhaps you make couples counselling a requirement? He may be refusing to book his own session but may engage if you have arranged relationship counselling

Worst case, you see the relationship counsellor alone and talk through with them the issues you are having and it will hopefully help you make decisions about what to do next

Do you think this is more damaging for the kids than having to go through a divorce?

Absolutely. You are BOTH most likely causing them damage. He, by his actions and you by not protecting them from it.

Now you've had another 'talk' where he's just agreed with you again and you probably don't follow through on actually doing anything about it. He said no to counselling because he knows he doesn't have to do anything other than nod his head and look contrite when you 'talk' to him

Your husband sounds mentally ill.

He 's not been himself for 2 years, now under additional covid stresses he's obsessing (about work), behaving out of character; irrational and spiralling downhill..That combined with talk about death wishes for himself and non-existence for the children is a gigantic RED FLAG.

. Talk of "calling the police to deal with out of control person" could be a projected call for help, someone desperate for outside intervention to rescue the family.

Please, please, call your GP right away  and tell them your husband  is   expressing suicidal  and family-obliteration  ideas.

If you can't get through to GP call whatever mental health charity operates emergency help in your area.