To think DH has crossed a line

[StuckInPollyannaMode]

DH has been having a mid life crisis, for want of a better way to describe it, for nearly 2 years now. We’ve been together for 10 years and have 2 kids. He helps in the house, pulls his weight (mostly, when not working his v long hours) with the kids and makes me laugh like a drain. But he’s been struggling and it’s a bit like living with a dementor - he can’t see the joy in life at all, everything is difficult or awful or sighworthy. Nothing is positive or funny and he’s a complete workaholic- he’s talk about work til midnight most nights if I let him.

Our eldest has some challenges. Tonight she has played up. He ended up coming in and telling her that not only would he need to call the police because of her behaviour but that he wished we’d never had the children. He’s so dramatic about everything and can’t see that this is really unhelpful.

Last week he told me that he wished he was dead because the children were playing up so much.

I’ve begged him to go to counselling.

He won’t.

I’m slowly losing all respect for him. He huffs and puffs and it’s like having a third child. I’m constantly having to be super positive to offset his negativity.

The irony is we’ve had the nicest day we’ve had in ages.

The other day I actually found myself imagining what it would be like to be divorced. There’s got to be more to life than this. Not that it’s something I want, and the children would be devastated. But these small things keep happening and I can’t forget them. It’s building and I don’t know what to do, except repeat once again that it’s not acceptable. But I’m not his mother or his therapist.

AIBU to think he needs to get himself under control and stop saying things like that in front of the children?

Op I'm glad you're going to have this conversation. Please focus the conversation on counselling AND a change in behaviour. My DF was both physically and emotionally abusive. I would say that the emotional abuse was more damaging.
My DM kept asking for counselling which he did occasionally to placate her. His behaviour might improve for a few weeks then it was back to square one. The counselling isn't the goal. It's the change!! Make sure you don't let him off the hook because he's done what you asked. No matter what 'poor me' bollocks excuse he gives you for the counselling not working.

Ohh jeez... are you me, op??

In our case, 2 losses of family members last yr has lead to what I think is depression. But he also refuses to get help.

He also says he can't wait to die. I don't know what else to do.

As a possible explanation (NOT an excuse - there is NO excuse for treating a child like that!!!!), I can totally see why he can be chatty and laughing with colleagues but not with family if he is depressed. He may see 'putting up the show' as part of his job - and also not want to share how he feels with a bunch of people he works with. But then he drops the facade when in private with his family because - if it is all just a pretense - it is impossible to keep it up 24/7.

Couple’s counselling isn’t recommended where there is abuse. It’d be better for you to see someone, alone.

He can do so too, if he chooses.

He has chosen to treat you and the DC this way.

- if it is all just a pretense - it is impossible to keep it up 24/7

This is also the exact pattern that domestic abuse takes. Abusers are typically chatty and charming with outsiders, cruel and punishing and critical at home. Does that mean all abusers are "depressed"?

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter - of course not. That's why I wrote that his behaviour towards the child is inexcusable. My point was only that some of his behaviour may very well be depression.

He sounds like he's using work to avoid family time with you and the DC. Is he one of these men who secretly hankers after a son and becomes resentful as the DC grow, that fatherhood isn't going to pan out as he planned? Does he have his own interests and hobbies.?
Stats show men are far more likely to leave the family unit if their offspring are solely female, and also if DC have additional needs. I know a couple.
Whatever reason, sounds like he's checking out. Awful behaviour.

Tell him either he gets help or you’ll unfortunately have to divorce as you can’t continue with his behaviour. Give him an ultimatum. He might be depressed, but doesn’t mean he isn’t incapable of seeking help.

He should seek medical advice, there are medications that could improve his mood, eg ADs.

As someone with very severe depression... Depression doesn't make you say stuff like that to your small child. If he's at that point, he should have caught onto himself a long time ago. the onus has been on him for some time to get help. He's chosen not to. Yes, asking for help isn't easy but if he's not willing to take that step, you and the children don't need to be his emotional punchbag. Take away the prospect of mental health issues and he's just a nasty bastard controlling you all. I am interested that you say your parents didn't want you to marry him and yet you want him to be the man you married. it sounds to me like your parents saw something in him even when you thought he was the bees knees.

It actually breaks my heart to think of him saying that to your child, and putting her presents in the bin. She might well love him, but he's damaging her. I could never ever say or do something like that to my children, no matter what they said or did, even in my worst depressive episodes.

No advice, OP, but good luck.

About seeking help, counselling, GP, anti-depressants etc. Therapy can take a long time, even years. Surely for this to work he would have to recognise and seek it himself? You should not be making appointments for him. You are not there to be his mother, his therapist. This could only work if he left to work on himself.

Personally I could never forgive anyone saying that to my children.

He may be depressed, he may just be abusive. He might be both.

The fact that he doesn't realise/won't acknowledge his behaviour is abusive is a massive problem.

You can't change him OP but you can change your response to him. Give him the ultimatum and protect your children. They deserve so much better.

A friend of mine had a similar situation. She had the capability to be happy with life, she was content, secure, emotionally healthy. He was a vampire sucking all her energy. She tried for about four years to get him to work himself out but eventually she told him straight that she was happy. Her life was enough for her. His mental health, his mindset, his issues, they were his to sort out. It finally galvanised him in to seeking some help and they rumbled along for a while until she called time on it. He does take the DC Every second weekend for a long weekend so she gets a good break and they are all much happier.

Splitting only seems like the thing you want to avoid at all costs when you're in the eye of the storm. Later you will feel crazy you didn't do it earlier.

What’s his job?

You’ll just have to be frank and tell him that unless he changes, you’re seriously contemplating divorce. All these little nasty things add up and it’s slowly making you feel less and less in love with the person he is now, your kids can’t be in an environment with such vile comments towards them. Tidying the kitchen doesn’t fix what he said.

What's going on with the 8 year old. When you say "difficult" what do you mean? Do you both agree on consequences etc. I'm not excusing his behaviour but is he just fed up of dealing with a disrespectful nightmare kid and feels like you pander to her? I wonder if a parenting class you could attend together might help and make you both feel like a team pulling in the same direction.

I could have written your op a couple of years ago. DH started counselling and it has made a huge difference, we went to marriage counselling and individual counselling. He recommends Untethered soul, by Michael A Singer and also the chimp paradox.

I really feel for you, OP. You're in the middle, trying to keep the balance and an emotional shield between your DH and your kids. That in itself is exhausting, you need to think of your own mental and physical health, too.

My mum is a career pessimist and critic. Nothing positive to say about anything. Emotionally abused her children to the point only half of us visit through duty.

I remember every single put down, dig, insult and criticism. To the outside world she was bubbly and fun but behind closed doors she was vicious. I idolised my dad when I was little, just because he wasn't her, but as I've grown older, I've come to resent why he never told her to stop or shut up, which he was capable of doing if he felt like doing so. He'd pretend she wasn't speaking and carry on eating his tea in front of the telly. I've lost a lot of respect for him. He had a relationship with another woman when we were in our teens and we all supported him (even met her and went on outings with her), as we knew how hard it was to live with my mother. He almost took his chance at freedom but changed his mind in the end and went back.

In the middle of one argument with my mother I asked her why she is the way she is - she didn't have abusive parents or any reason to be so unhappy, angry and distrustful of everything. She said she didn't know.

Just remember, your happiness is as important as your kids'.

You very calmly tell him the following:

1. That he is bullying the children. By constantly changing his expectations and being up and down, it is making them insecure. This is setting them up for a life of potential self-esteem and mental health issues.

1. That he is nasty and unkind to them. Telling an 8 y/o child that you wish they'd never been born is a wicked thing to do. Ask him what his precious work colleagues would think of him if they knew he behaved like this towards his own children?

1. That he has ONE chance remaining to sort this out. It's been going on for two years and it's two years too long. It stops now - and if he needs to see a counsellor or a GP then he needs to crack on and sort that out. If he's not willing to do that then you are filing for divorce. If he backtracks on anything or reverts to being a shitty nasty bully then you are filing for divorce.

1. Finally, if he EVER does anything like this again to the children, you will make sure that his friends, his family and all of his work colleagues find out just what a nasty little man he is. So if he values his work and reputation then he might want to consider that.

TBH once lockdown is over I'd divorce him anyway. He sounds bloody awful.

He sounds like my dad. My mum never stood up to him because she wanted to keep the peace for our sakes but I wish to goodness she had done.

Why does everyone want to excuse him by saying “he sounds depressed”? I don’t think he sounds depressed at all. I think he sounds horrible.

@FallonSwift

I love you

What an absolute prick, throwing kids birthday presents in the bin! Don’t you think that is worse than having divorced parents?

He is like my dad. He used to tell my sister and me we were useless, that if we died no one would care. In a fit of rage, he broke all my sister's Christmas presents. He used to threaten me with breaking/binning my favourite toys if I did/didn't do x, y or z. And then he would say he never said/did it, so we didn't even have the right to be sad about it, because it never happened.

I remember every single time he did it. I have never forgiven him, or my mum for not standing up to him.

He took his own life 3 years ago. His last "fuck you" to the World. Good riddance.

Leave him. Fast. Your children deserve better, and so do you.

Does he acknowledge that his depression / anxiety is unhealthy and damaging for the kids?