In thinking marriage is an institution preferred by the middle class

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

and based on economics ?

I will tell you the truth. I know absolutely NO One who Is unmarried with children. Middle class mother of 3. Dc now in early 20s and 18. Live in South East. Work full time in the Civil Service on about 40k. DH has a very tricky Mental illness therefore we don't currently live together but he has 5 DC with ex wife. When he works he is a high earner.

I read on MN all the time about couples living together with dc who are not married and wonder why there is such a disparity between my 'world' and the outside world where cohabitation is prevalent .

Based on the fact that I have had 'kids parents ' around for a quarter of a century - that's a LOT of couples ...I am wondering why my world is so different from the norm - and thinking , is it to do with money /property. ? Surely MC women have the same number of accidental slip ups than anyone else as fertility isn't governed by economic prosperity. Or are the well off more ruthless and feel more able to abort if 'the perfect situation isn't in place'

No judgement either way. I have no religious agenda about marriage and kids - just genuinely interested why I have absolutely no 'living together ' friends , even when a first marriage has ended and there are no more kids. Why do all the families i know, re marry when it's not the norm these days. ?

I know very few unmarried couples. One or two on second relationships but mainly long term marriages with teenagers and young adult children. Most of the young people see marriage as where they are headed but sometimes live together for a while first.
I think affluence makes life generally easier and that includes marriage.

Sorry, I was rambling and forgot to ask the pertinent question..
do you think the prevalence of marriage is more to do with
Age
Culture
Religion
Society you associate with (peers)
Or Economics .

I know very few married people, I have one friend who is married and another who is recently engaged. We’re largely fairly successful in our careers ranging from finance, health care and music 30-40 years of age.

I’m married, 29 years, neighbours all married, a few widowed.
Many colleagues married. Old friends and family from decades ago still married.
Think I might be living in a parallel universe.
Sorry I can’t contribute but I’m interested.

A lot of MC people are all about the image and like to be seen as 'doing things right' I don't think any other class is that bothered about how other people perceive them.

I think it is about the social norm and family values. If you are raised by a family with certain values, they usually surround themselves with people with simiar values, and their children will go on to live similar lifestyles with similar value again and surround themselves with friends of similar values...If you get what I mean?

Money is certainly a factor in why I'm not married but also I just don't think it's that important.
Maybe it's an age thing? But I'm nearly 30 so I'm not exactly the youngest mum.

I know a lot of divorced people older than me, including my parents and my partner's parents. I basically feel married anyway, as I've been with my partner since we were both 19.

We'll get married eventually, but mostly for the cake and tax benefits. Nothing much else will change for us.

What’s the age spread like across the people you know? If your children are 18-20, that might suggest your circle of friends are late 40’s-early 50’s, do you know many people in their twenties/thirties? As I think it’s more common among younger couples.

But on the whole, YANBU, it does skew towards wealthier couples - marriage is as much a financial planning decision as a romantic one.

Interesting theory. In my family we have a couple of unmarried mothers and yes they tend to be the ones in lowest paid jobs. Those of us in professional jobs/careers all married before having children.

I'm sure there will be many others come in to dispute this and say how they are middle class/high earners and unmarried mothers.

I know more unmarried couples than married. Variety of jobs, incomes and areas.

Mmmmm.

I'm not sure it's always so straightforward. I have a PhD and my DP an MA. We both work in well-paid professional jobs. I'm mid-40s, he's slightly younger but not much. We have 3 young DC and have been together for 17 years. We are not married and have no intention of marrying. We are not religious and don't see any point in a wedding. I would actively hate a big splashy wedding.

We are both from very middle class backgrounds and raised by Christian, church-going parents.

We don't fit into your model it seems.

Just to give you the age spread... eldest is 24, so couples married in 1995. To be fair most are now divorced BUT have gone on to second marriages.

Second is 21. All of her friends parents are all still married OR on second (3 are on third ) marriages. Yet no further DC)

Third is 18. Every single one is married. I have just a
Quizzed her 🙄... of 14 closest friends.. 9 are on first marriages, 4 are single parents all with heavily involved NRPs and one has remarried. No one is in a cohabitation.

I just find it strange and so out of step with MN cohort in general ... but why ?..

We are in South East. (Not London) Is it a geographical thing ? Or an age thing. .. maybe a combination of both . SouthEast = High property prices and age has a lot to do with societal expectation....

We’re in the south east too. I definitely think you’re onto something with the whole mc thing. I’m 31 and have been married for 4 years. Both DH’s and my friends (uni friends, work colleagues or joint friends) are all married. We have some single friends too of course, but everyone does get engaged within 2/3 years and then married and then children. There have been a few who had children before marriage (not planned) but they then got married after.

We’re all 30-45 and homeowners too. I do think economics plays a massive part which comes from being raised by mc parents who paid for private education (not everyone of course), helped with house deposits, contributed to weddings, help with childcare etc. We in turn are trying to do the same for our own dc. Quite a few of us have investment properties too that will help with giving our dc all of the opportunities we had.

We’re not rich at all, but we’re very lucky to be comfortable. On reflection, it’s odd to think that we know nobody who are together with dc but not married. I’d never even thought about it before.

"unmarried mothers"
What is this, the bloody 1950s?

Really helpful motherofPearl

I am actually trying to have a genuine discussion . Don't need nitpicking about language. It's pedantic and unhelpful. You know as well as I that I mean parents raising children on their own without having been married.

In my family we have a couple of unmarried mothers and yes they tend to be the ones in lowest paid jobs.

That's unfortunate @couchlover, since they are probably the ones with the most to gain from being married.

To answer the OP, it's an interesting question. I am a middle class professional and I was always more interested in having children than getting married. Four years ago when I turned 30 the biological clock started ticking and my now-husband and I were living a long way away from each other. I thought that if we moved to be with me I could financially support him while he looked for a job and we could TTC sooner rather than later. In the end I moved to be with him and found a great job so TTC wasn't really practical at that time, so we got married instead. No luck on the baby front yet, so we are married without kids for now. I don't have any friends who are unmarried with kids. They're all married with kids, married without kids, or unmarried without kids.

Dd is in year 5 so our sample is not too old
Or too young. I know only a handful of unmarried parents and all of those are couples who divorced. I don’t personally know a single person who was not married when they started having children. It is just normal in our area to get a degree, establish your career, and then pair with an equally achieving partner in marriage and have children. These are not overly religious people. Just normal, boring, upper middle class men and women.

Don’t think so, I know both married and cohabitating couples across the class spectrum. There is obviously a difference in the weddings due to income but also the mc wish to be keeping up with the Joneses, the more middle class (generally) being engaged for quite a while and spending eye boggling amounts on the actual wedding day. I am in my 40s and have also noticed a trend in these people having vow renewals at 10 or 15 years with another big event.

presume you are in your 40s/50s op, like myself, it was a lot easier for our generation to buy property in the past, so I think this has made a big difference. Also we are more likely to have had parents who were married, as it was more fashionable in the 60s/70s/80s etc.. Just a generational thing and times are changing.

From a different angle... I am of an Indian (immigrant) background and in my circle the richer someone is the less likely they are to be married. All my working class friends are married. My middle class friends are mostly married but some have divorced. Only a couple of my upper middle class class friends are married - most are in long term relationships with sahp and several children.

I must buck the tread.
I am a mother of 4, living in the SE, children early 20's to 14 and I have never been married, I would class myself as middle class.
Ex partner and I never married and my now partner have never married and I don't think we ever will, I am not bothered by it at all.

I know two couples with children who are not married.

Both mothers are successful professionals who have remained in work (although DHs likely earn more).

The vast, vast majority of my friends married before having children.

I was thinking about this recently too. My DC are at primary school so almost all the parents i know are in their 30s or 40s. Everyone is married. I have no idea what most of my good friend's maiden names were as everyone has taken their husband's name (me included). I know a handful of people who are single or divorced. Very middle class, professional, fairly affluent area in south west England.

Of the couples i know with children I’d say it’s about half and half (and we fit into the middle class bracket) however most of the couples I know who aren’t married do plan to get married.