In thinking marriage is an institution preferred by the middle class

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

and based on economics ?

I will tell you the truth. I know absolutely NO One who Is unmarried with children. Middle class mother of 3. Dc now in early 20s and 18. Live in South East. Work full time in the Civil Service on about 40k. DH has a very tricky Mental illness therefore we don't currently live together but he has 5 DC with ex wife. When he works he is a high earner.

I read on MN all the time about couples living together with dc who are not married and wonder why there is such a disparity between my 'world' and the outside world where cohabitation is prevalent .

Based on the fact that I have had 'kids parents ' around for a quarter of a century - that's a LOT of couples ...I am wondering why my world is so different from the norm - and thinking , is it to do with money /property. ? Surely MC women have the same number of accidental slip ups than anyone else as fertility isn't governed by economic prosperity. Or are the well off more ruthless and feel more able to abort if 'the perfect situation isn't in place'

No judgement either way. I have no religious agenda about marriage and kids - just genuinely interested why I have absolutely no 'living together ' friends , even when a first marriage has ended and there are no more kids. Why do all the families i know, re marry when it's not the norm these days. ?

I'm working class. I was the only person I knew who was married before I had a child.

You might be right. I hear a lot on MN about marrying for financial security but the people I know in real life don't have any spare money and rent their homes, so financial security isn't there anyway!

And I was the same by the way, I'm divorced now but exh and I didn't have a pot to piss in back then so I didn't gain anything from being married before having a child.

I am unsure what criteria you are placing upon people to decide whether they are indeed MC or not. Education? Wealth? Employment? Self proclamation?

I am a degree educated civil servant in the South East with 3 children. Never married. My parents were married for 68 years and I just never wanted that degree of misery in my life.

MC is sticky ground imho. Some people do what they want to do, not what they are expected to do.

Yes and no. You're not taking into account ethnicity. There are several ethnic groups in this country that are disproportionately low income and hardly ever cohabit instead of marrying, such as Somalis and Bangladeshis. With white people, possibly.

That's interesting chickenhead . The fact that you are a civil servant like me but never married seems bizarre.

I civil servants have a decent pension only payable to married partners..

Would you not want you children's parent to inherit that ?

I think marrying before children is definitely more common in the middle and upper classes. Most mothers I know who are unmarried or married after having children are from a working class or deprived background (I’m from a deprived area myself), all my friends and colleagues who married before having children are people who were either middle class to begin with or people who worked their way up to being middle class through their education and profession.

I wonder how people know who's married and who isn't, I mean among acquaintances?

I'm pretty sure I'm middle class.. unmarried and pregnant. Several friends in same set up (in ltr with the other parent but not married). Also friends of my parents who have been together for 40 years + and have children my age but never married. All middle class, but maybe not the most conventional people.

Listened to “The Five” a social history of jack the rippers victims from feminist perspective. Very good. At that time few working class got married men and women linked up for a while (life was hard and they needed each other) but marriage was a more middle class thing only worth doing if you had money or property

We've been together 23+ years and have 2 DS both late teens. We haven't bothered to get married - both atheists, dont like parties and attention, never felt the need for paperwork. I dont know if that answers your question though

For Middle class I am thinking about Education/Income or inherited wealth. If that helps at all. Not particularly race or culture as we are a white/Asian family.

However when I say to disregard race - I may be disingenuous as unusually I am the 'white' and ex DH the Asian therefore DC identify very much as 'English'

I considered the option of marriage for financial reasons, yes, but overwhelmingly decided against it. I remained in the classic pension scheme until mandatory transfer.

Marriage is more than a financial decision to me. It is a commitment for life. I just haven't ever felt the desire to do so.

I wonder how people know who's married and who isn't, I mean among acquaintances?

Also this.

In a few cases I know due to comments or having known people a very long time. Most acquaintances/neighbours etc I would have no idea.

MsTSwift thank you. I will do that.

Of my circle only one is unmarried, divorced from her DCs father though. We are white, middle class, late 20's 30's.

KnobwithaK no great scientific assumption - simply being introduced at pick ups/drop offs/play dates/parties as 'Hi , 'this is my husband John' .. 'my wife will drop home' etc ..

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel see, in my circle I would find that unusual.. people just refer to their partner/spouse by their name.. (not calling you weird or anything, just saying that it's interesting that it's different )

Well start off with the ridiculous pressure people put themselves under financially for a wedding.

If you’re stable financially this is completely doable. For many people there’s no point in even attempting a 5-20k commitment on a wedding.

So yes on that one alone, getting married is easier for the MC

Chickenhead - yes same for me. Classic pension until mandatory transfer and yet the spouse pension still transfers to a .. spouse or goes to the treasury . I always felt that if I could be arsed to share a bed with someone then I could would want them to have my pension. It can't go to anyone else and seems a waste not to take it - even if I'm not there to enjoy it.

Interested to know why you wouldn't want you dp to benefit ?

I know people are married even if they’re acquaintances because they refer to their husband or wife, wear wedding rings or if I have them on social media it says they are married. Of course there are exceptions like people who don’t wear wedding rings and don’t have social media or talk about their spouse much, but they’re few and far between.

KnobwithaK I think that may be an age thing.. I am 56..

Can I just say how FANTASTIC it is to have a genuine discussion on here.. without trolls and knob heads ..

Thank you everyone. I may not have answered you all but I have read every answer and really enjoyed a bit of interesting debate..

I’m working class and married. Or at least I started off working class anyway, before my PhD, MBA and permanent ex-pat life overseas. I married for love and so did he, as I come from fuck-all. Couldn’t give two shits what others think of my marital status.

Plenty of my working class friends are married (none divorced). Of my middle-class friends, some are married and some are divorced, and we’re only 30-40.

Yes same ElsieBear90. Difficult to explain but I just 'know' by their behaviour.. may I ask your approximate age.. thinking it might be an age thing ? (Don't worry if you don't want to give it)

Everything @Teacher12345 says

Most people, not all - tend to surround themselves with people who are similar to them knowingly or unknowingly. It's comfortable, it's safe and you relate easier.
I always find these sorts of threads hard though (in a lighthearted way!) as everything in my perspective is very middle class, I was certainly brought up middle class however I have, to some definitely slipped down a little bit if you look at simply how much money I earn.
I am married and expecting our 1st child