To think Higher Education must move courses online that could be done as distance learning?

[PersonaNonGarter]

The world is changing and the old style teaching requiring everyone to be in a lecture theatre or tutorial is over.

Social Distancing, Impact on the Planet, Widening Education - whichever way you look at it Universities should not be expecting their students to commute in.

So why aren’t they doing this? And why are people just accepting it?

They are. Most Universities are providing some online courses and have long term plans to provide more and more. But University is not just about the course but also the experience of leaving home and meeting new people. Hopefully there will be a place for both campus and remote learning.

Just like the Open University. I preferred my OU experience to a brick university. No cliques or sitting round in seminars making posters on flip chart paper. Arghhhhhh!

Whilst it's a good idea you can't just click a button and ta-da! There's a lot of work to be done in terms of platforms, content, learning styles, accessibility, online libraries, subscriptions, getting teaching material into the correct online format, creating the learning activities, etc., etc.

Teaching online is not done in the same way as teaching in person. It also won't work for everyone.

My institution has had to put almost everything online/DL because of lockdown. But we deliver a lot of programmes which need hands on input - nursing, allied health professions, paramedics, biological sciences (labs), costume design, stage design, etc. How do you manage placements?
These cannot be delivered entirely at distance. Also, there’s a lot of work required to put work, and deliver teaching, online.

Also, you can’t get an international student visa for any programme which has less than 50% time ‘in person’. This will massively impact income, and viability, if unis like mine can’t bring in international student fees.

We are moving all our courses online for this semester. But very worried that long term plans to do this will mean a) that same staff have to set up double courses without being paid b) that this will result in a two-tier system where wealthier students will get everyday access to tutors and the kind of contacts that help in further careers while less privileged students will get second-rate experience. In other words, the opposite of Widening Education. Durham University are now going to run the same courses online and on site. One lot of students will know the tutors who write their references personally, they will be able to access their advice in person, they will be able to access any activities going on on campus.

Also no indication they intend to pay the staff who have to do the work twice to set up in two different formats any extra or take on more staff.

Have very good reason to worry that this will mean universities will get staff to set up online courses and then sack them, leaving the same increasingly faded material to run year after year.

I am working my honest best to support my students over the pandemic but there is no way I can offer them the same experience as they can get by being able to knock on my door at any time to talk about something that's just caught their attention. It's not just about leaving home and meeting people: it is also about the kind of impetus you get from a really good seminar discussion, passing through the cafeteria half an hour later and seeing my students huddled together still talking excitedly, staff and student study days and evenings out, field trips. Have just marked a set of outstanding first year essays, and I know how many of those ideas have shot out of seminar discussions and talks we've had. There is no way I can replicate that at home with a discussion board and Zoom.

I think it's also important to remember it's more than academic knowledge. Skills like teamworking, ability to present their work though public speaking, able to debate and take criticism. Uni helped me to be more independent and confident

Many, if not most, institutions will try to move online by Sept/Oct. It’s an incredibly intensive process, however — not just in terms of creating the content but also in getting the infrastructure for online learning in place. Added to that, teaching and teaching-related activities are only a third of my job as an academic. I also have research and admin/management work to do, although now it looks like I’ll lose all my research time this summer as I’ll be working flat out to set things up online.

I hear what you are all saying about experience of going to university - but is there any reason why people can’t just do that anyway? Go and stay with other young people with access to clubs and societies and just pay more for that?

In terms of library services - this is definitely not beyond universities and tbh they should have got more online already. I would have thought it is a question of paying for access as part of the course. Specialist research material/archive material may be a different matter.

I am not saying no one should ever travel anywhere for learning. Just that Higher Education is not really playing its part.

Lab sessions, practical work ? Hard to do remotely.

OP, I teach maths at university level. Before the current situation, most of my material could be accessed online (PowerPoint slides, worksheets, even recorded lectures). Even so, my colleagues and I consistently observed a strong correlation between the students who attend lectures / tutorials and the pass rate. IMO accessing the material online isn't as good a substitute as actually hearing someone explain it and being able to ask questions etc. You might think that a subject like maths would be well suited to online learning (not much need for group discussions, practical work etc), but that's not what we've found in the past. Perhaps this will change things.

If people want to study online at a distance they can - via the OU. If they'd prefer face to face they can do that too.

Choice - are you advocating for the removal of that choice OP?

(I'm surprised though that you think 'brick' universities don't have online materials or delivery though - there's bucketloads of it to supplement learning.)

Lots of young people will not bother with university if it is online learning. Most of young people are very social and enjoy seminars and tutorials, studying in libraries, socialising in student cafe. My daughter is in 6th form and is desperate to go back to school. She said she wouldn't go to university if it is online.

It could work if you are very introverted and highly motivated, and doing a humanities course.

Studying remotely is very isolating and could possibly lead to more students dropping out. It wouldn't't work for most art, science or medical related subjects.

This topic gets raised all the time on MN - by adults. I wonder how many young students would prefer to study remotely? I suspect that the vast majority would prefer going to physical lectures and seminars, and want to be involved in the social side of being a student.

Just that Higher Education is not really playing its part.

The reason more courses are not available online is that students don't generally want them. Of course universities will be moving more of their programmes online but it will take time to offer all of them as a proper online course..At the moment many are cobbled together distance learning formats to deliver courses originally designed for.face to face teaching so that the academic year can finish.

To think that all programs can be delivered online as well as face to face with out a huge amount of work is.an indication of how little you understand the work involved in designing HE programmes of study.

I personally think universities should take this opportunity to change to a January start academic year which some other countries do. In the interim they can design more flexible modes of study for many programmes so.that students can choose if they want to.do f2f or online.

It is still a.massive amount of work but will give flexibility and also get rid of the who offers based on predicted a levels admissions nightmare. Students would have their results.before applying to university as they do for instance in Australia . They just get a few months break between A levels and starting university.

Lots of young students at the OU. I wouldn't have wanted to do it online when I was young though.

I agree with Outer, there's something you get from face to face that you don't get from online. I teach both ways, online I do lectures and seminars with groups of students who can discuss together, but you rarely get the depth of learning that face to face can offer.

Oh and all.the research shows.that many many people do very badly on online courses.amd drop out rates are much higher generally.

Part (Most?) of the reason drop out rates are higher for online is that different sorts students sign up for online degrees. They tend to have caring responsibilities, health problems etc.

💐 for my HE colleagues

All of our lectures are recorded and available online already. Students access them during revision but still choose to attend and hear them in person for all the reasons pps have highlighted.

FWIW our labs are being used for COVID research right now and who do you think did all the climate research in the first place. HE has been very much playing it’s part for quite some time.

DD's university are doing COVID research, have given up halls for NHS staff and have donated part of a building to become a Nightingale hospital.

I'm currently doing a masters degree and lectures have moved online. I hate it, really hate it. I can't motivate myself via distance learning. I just hope the uni is open by September as I don't think my grades will cope with the lack of contact.

Also, I work full time and attend uni 1 day a week. Moving 2 hours to the uni I attend so that I can hang out and socialise isn't an option and isn't part of the experience that I'm talking about. It's the easy sharing of knowledge, group work, helping those that aren't working in the industry, all of that would be lost to some extent. I'm sure grades would suffer and the qualifications would become more and more meaningless.

Durham is apparently pushing to have a lot of its courses at least partly online.
When I read this I thought that if my DC was going to be put on an online course at Durham, I'd probably prefer they did it with the OU - as the OU are used to teaching this way and providing support. Durham will be learning how to do it for years to come.

I'm doing a Masters starting in October. All content is online. There is the option to go into the Uni if you want to, but you don't have to. I probably will, especially when it gets to writing up the dissertation.

I was also at an undergrad open day with DS and they have been thinking about all of this. This particular uni overhauled its timetables so that students had all their lectures together in blocks - not one at 9am, another at 3pm and lots of hanging around in between. The lecturer said it was being done in recognition of the changing nature of higher education - more people working and studying part time, more people living at home and travelling to campus, more single parents paying for childcare. All makes a lot of sense.

However, this is a modern, innovative university. There are other universities who are stuck in the 19th century never mind the 20th. They aren't going to be abandoning their traditions any time soon as that's their USP with foreign students who pay $$$$ to attend.

What is the point of this thread OP? Are you a student who does not have access to the required online materials? Or just being goady when you have no idea what universities already do and how they're planning to adapt going forward?