To think Higher Education must move courses online that could be done as distance learning?

[PersonaNonGarter]

The world is changing and the old style teaching requiring everyone to be in a lecture theatre or tutorial is over.

Social Distancing, Impact on the Planet, Widening Education - whichever way you look at it Universities should not be expecting their students to commute in.

So why aren’t they doing this? And why are people just accepting it?

I’m WFH and struggling as feel isolated.

Part of my degrees (many years ago) could have been delivered online but the random discussions at lunch about a lecture or the debating society that brought me out of myself at least a bit wouldn’t. I know that some of that can be replicated online and current students would do that a lot more. I agree with PP that it could become even more a two tier system if the same degrees are delivered and awarded online/campus.

Laboratories?
Collaboration?
Serendipity?
Feedback?
you know, the stuff that actually advances learning .....

@saturdaynightathome indeed!

The first time I taught a university course exclusively online was 2005. This has been going on for a long time.

I’ve done two masters (both work-related, one stats that I use day to day, one teaching qualification that I needed to take on a specific extra role). The first was entirely distance learning (very established programme), and the second was F2F.

I got so much more out of the F2F one, even though I use the distance learning one more. Meeting other professionals on the course and learning from their contributions in tutorials, having study groups to discuss the material with, being able to use a range of learning methods (practical teaching observations, presentations, reading at home, group discussions, being able to ask questions in class). All of these things are impossible to replicate in an online course.

The first MSc taught me to do regression. The MA made me into a better teacher. Reading some slides online would not have done that.

What is the point of this thread OP?

I think universities are moving far too slowly and are set up for attendance not distance learning, and too reluctant to change.

I might said I have taught at HE, have two degrees, and a post-grad and the subject came up today because I am looking at doing a masters and am amazed how poor the distance learning provision is at quality universities.

People will swear blind to you that something always has to be done X way. But, things move on.

FWIW my BF is a don and he tells me he has fulfilled all his teaching requirements by zoom absolutely for the term. But, yes, those are committed students.

Hard to do dissection by remote learning, or experiments in a lab, or practical work needing other people. Which lots of degrees do.

One of my daughters is studying veterinary medicine and the other theatre design. Neither of those can be delivered online in the long term as they contain a huge practical element.

I think universities are moving far too slowly and are set up for attendance not distance learning, and too reluctant to change.

Moving too slowly how? They're perfectly set up to deliver in the style that students want? And almost all have adapted incredibly quickly to the current crisis to deliver in a way that ensures continuity. How's that slow?

And yes the bloody point of face to face learning is that they're set up for attendance. The OU offers distance learning if that's what people want they are welcome to do so.

Things don't necessarily move on in better ways you know.... as several posters have pointed out (not that you've acknowledged any of the issues) the less attendance the poorer the students results and higher the tendency to drop out.

Sorry, just to be clear, this is about courses that could reasonably be moved online. So those with a critical practical element would not be included.

I did my MSc through distance learning and the experience was absolutely horrible. It was so isolating, you learn a lot from your peers while studying - sitting at home alone you miss out on all of that. Would not recommend at all!

Some courses just aren’t suited to 100% online delivery.
I’m preparing my course to be delivered online just in case we’re still social distancing in September but it won’t be as strong a course.

A blended approach would work but not fully distance.

Wow YABU.

I am stunned to see you say that you work at HE. Have you ever designed an online course? You don't seem to have a clue how difficult it is to do or how long it takes. Not to mention that many disciplines rely on contact and real time debate which are very challenging to offer online.

Which courses do not involve a critical practical element? I'd be interested to find out your list.

I did my Master’s via the OU. Really enjoyed the experience.

'The education community' are getting the clap on the daily briefing right now. Hooray to us.

And what sort of fees would the university expect for this? Would they expect the full fees, just the same as they are now for delivering face to face support?
My DD is due to go to Uni in the Autumn 2020 and she is worried she will have to spend the first year at home and studying on line. She is a committed student so would probably manage well with this but quite shy and was hoping that going to Uni would give her more confidence and life experience. Also to make new friends. You can't deliver that online.

I just think it is a really miserable prospect to say' I got my degree from XYZ University but did not set foot there expect for the open day.'

I didn’t make any friends at uni really. Oh well!

Me neither Birdie, but I had a lot of one night stands. I suppose you could sort of do that online.

To address some of the points made:

*Laboratories?
Collaboration?
Serendipity?
Feedback?
you know, the stuff that actually advances learning *

Laboratories - I thought I addressed this in the title, apologies. I think laboratories are a relevant reason for attending in person. Having said this, in the future more will be done collaboratively remotely event with this.
Collaboration - This is a generational thing. Distance may be harder to understand for Gen X but not for millennials - get on YouTube and see the ‘colabs’ or speak to gamers - they are making mates around the world. FWIW I work in an international firm and an expected to collaborate with clients and team mates around the world.

Serendipity - Do you mean for academic insight? I do not think this is justification at undergraduate or taught post-grad level.
Feedback -

We're all online now at my US university and it's OK for me, but partly because I teach in the Humanities, and partly because all my students usually have access to decent broadband (though some have had problems with power cuts etc so that they just can't be in the class and I have to catch up with them later, which is time-consuming). But what if some people don't have access to good tech? Also, a major reason that it's fine is that I got to know these students in real life for half a semester. I suspect that the motivation and good will that they have now towards me and the course would be considerably less if I'd never met them in person. And this period is really tough for my colleagues in lab sciences.