To think Higher Education must move courses online that could be done as distance learning?

[PersonaNonGarter]

The world is changing and the old style teaching requiring everyone to be in a lecture theatre or tutorial is over.

Social Distancing, Impact on the Planet, Widening Education - whichever way you look at it Universities should not be expecting their students to commute in.

So why aren’t they doing this? And why are people just accepting it?

Thanks Sue! I do modern languages, but it's the same kind of thing

Once the qualification is achieved an employer can understand that X information has been studied/learned. As a paying student, this is what we want

You still aren’t “listening” are you. Employers want much more than just knowledge.

You also seem to think HE teaching is just providing information. Therefore, we can just stick this online - it’s really so much more than that. Which you should know if you’ve taught at HE level

Well said @SueEllenMishke. There is no way I would employ someone fresh out of studying for a degree if they had spent the entire time sitting in their bedroom for 2 or three years. Teamwork, interacting socially with your peers, being able to use your initiative, other social skills, being able to make a cup of tea for fellow team members etc are things that you cannot learn from just sitting at a desk.

Being able to attend lectures, seminars and practical sessions should be supported online, but it can’t all be done online and result in a well rounded graduate.

"History is one of the most sought after subjects by graduate employers."

Why is that @SueEllenMishke? I know that history is a very popular subject, and it is the only subject where there is no shortage of teachers. Is it the transferrable skills?

If that is the case that completely throws the OP's argument out, because transferrable skills in humanities degrees is what most employers are looking for.

long-term remote studying at University level is harder on a students MH than face to face learning

That's a generalisation. For some physically going to a university for face to face learning is harder, I've done both during three qualifications and I know which I prefer but not everybody is the same.

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The pedagogy of adult learning is about much more than sitting in a classroom.

A decent higher education course will try and promote active learning by utilising tools such as flipped classrooms, activities, PBL, debate and discussion. You can not get the same benefit from online learning, even in a zoom classroom you don’t get the same sort of debate.

It’s doable in the short term but it is not ideal.

That's a generalisation

It is, but it is true for the vast majority of students. At DD's university they take attendance quite seriously because it is often an indicator that a student isn't coping if they don't turn up to a lot of lectures.

DH did quite a few OU courses including an MBA. They were (under their old fee structure) great for adult learners acquiring additional skills, often funded by an employer.

We also did chemistry degrees (and PhDs) ... no way could those really be delivered online anyway, but also I don't think many 18-21 yos are mature enough to work that way especially if they're not already living independently and have other structures such as an employer.

It might be good if there could be 'best of breed ' (top experts working with people good at how to present the material, not always the same thing) online courses for adult continuing education with appropriate fee structures - usually not a whole degree.

the old style teaching requiring everyone to be in a lecture theatre or tutorial is over

No, it's not.

ginfordinner It is the transferable skills. It's a particularly popular subject for accountancy and law - history students tend to be able to analyse information, see the bigger picture, be able to see things from different perspectives, research, debate etc. Many of these skills are learned in the classroom and by interacting with staff and students.

Thanks Sue! I do modern languages, but it's the same kind of thing

Most definitely!

Having seen how my course has functioned since it went online - I'd say we could probably get it to a 1 day or 2 day's needing to be on campus a week, a day on placement and 2-3 days online fairly well. However, we're a close-knit and small cohort (because we've been together for a year) so support each other fairly well on a messenger group anyway and some elements would be easier to move online than others - hence I think we'd need some days or blocks of days campus-based learning.

I don't, however, think there's a need to pack us all into a lecture theatre for a 50 minute lecture that is completely based upon going over the powerpoint slide - that could easily be done by our online platform (as recent weeks have proven) - although it is dependant upon fucking Blackboard (I loathe the software) not having a diva strop.

I'd bloody love it if I didn't have to get the stupid o'clock train and pay a small fortune for the parking and train to come in for those sessions - but I'm older and very focused and have actually logged on for the online stuff and would have loved to do the whole degree distance learning if it was doable that way.

One of our lecturers goes through the timetable and rearranges it all to reduce the number of trapped hours sat around on campus lunacy that the timetabling elves produce - we bloody love her for this. Didn't go down well with another lecturer when we had 5 hours of time to hang around and I buggered off into town to do my Christmas shopping - the look I got showing up for the late lecture with shopping bags could have curdled milk!

This is a generational thing. Distance may be harder to understand for Gen X but not for millennials

Plenty of us are millennials you patronising arse.

This is a generational thing. Distance may be harder to understand for Gen X but not for millennials

Plenty of us are millennials you patronising arse.

This!

This is a generational thing. Distance may be harder to understand for Gen X but not for millennials

I did my degree in my late 40s, all online. I didn't attend a single tutorial or lecture in that time. It was far easier than my degree from a brick university.

This is a generational thing. Distance may be harder to understand for Gen X but not for millennials.

Plenty of Gen Xers (and older) are happily working remotely right now. Surprised you didn't wheel out "boomers", though you probably think that generation are already retired.

You haven't said a word yet on how to teach critical thinking skills online. I would really, really be interested in the answer as my discipline depends on tutorials which universities can no longer afford, so if we could move online and teach thousands at a time that would be revolutionary.

Loads of people my age (59) have done distance learning with the OU - including before it was made easier (I assume) by online access. But as adults, not typical undergrad age.

How many mature students who did a degree by distant learning had jobs/family/established social circle?

I bet having those already in place made distant learning easier.

You haven't said a word yet on how to teach critical thinking skills online. I would really, really be interested in the answer as my discipline depends on tutorials which universities can no longer afford, so if we could move online and teach thousands at a time that would be revolutionary.

I don't think we'll be seeing a study app called "Socrates Asks" any time soon!

I've spent most of today facilitating virtual tutorials with my students. Every single one had commented , unprompted, about how much they are missing the face to face contact. They enjoy being in a room with each other and having the opportunity to discuss and debate our subject.

How many mature students who did a degree by distant learning had jobs/family/established social circle?

I was a single parent with 3 children under 7, living over 100 miles from family in an area I'd only just moved to so had no established social circle and had just started a new job.

I personally don't want my uni course to be online only. I've had a taste of it and I miss being in class, interacting with the other student and lecturers.

I think that would be really sad, going to university changed my life. We will end up like ready player one with the obsession some people have with wilting away in their house behind a screen.

Also I'm looking into deferring my MA for a year because I hate online only study that much.

I really miss being at uni (and I'm a mature student, not sure how the younger students are coping.)

Op (still) hasn't addressed choice either - most people CHOOSE face to face. But apparently OP knows best to remove that choice despite it now appears not having any HE experience at all (and no, being an applicant is NOT experience of the sector, any more than I can tell my GP how to best do his job even though I've had appointments with him).