To think Higher Education must move courses online that could be done as distance learning?

[PersonaNonGarter]

The world is changing and the old style teaching requiring everyone to be in a lecture theatre or tutorial is over.

Social Distancing, Impact on the Planet, Widening Education - whichever way you look at it Universities should not be expecting their students to commute in.

So why aren’t they doing this? And why are people just accepting it?

As a (part time) HE student currently having online 'classes' due to lock down, it's not something I'd want to do permenantly. It's okay as a temporary, but I am very much missing my classmates, having a reason to leave my house, and be in that education setting. I find it difficult to put my brain into study mode at home so going into the building helps put me in that frame of mind. I think most of us in the class feel we have had less tuition and instruction since being online only and despite the tutors saying they are just an email/instant message away, it's just not the same as having them sit and support you face to face.
Just my opinion though of course.

But what if some people don't have access to good tech?

I do agree that this is an issue. But, if students don’t have to incur the costs of physical attendance, they will be better placed to pay for their own infrastructure. Plus, course cost will (should) come down if universities are not having to find teaching accommodation.

My university is very constrained physically, and this has a huge impact on timetabling and access to teaching. By removing the accommodation element, you can increase access to course staff if needed.

Collaboration - This is a generational thing. Distance may be harder to understand for Gen X but not for millennials - get on YouTube and see the ‘colabs’ or speak to gamers - they are making mates around the world

This is what you would expect, but in practice for university level study it isn't true. The younger students struggle the most with collaborating online. (I have researched & published on this subject. There's quite a lot of research that says the same but hasn't agreed on reasons or solutions yet.)

Plus, course cost will (should) come down if universities are not having to find teaching accommodation.

Yes that model's working so well for the OU isn't it...? Oh wait.

You haven't addressed the issue of choice? Most students choose face to face rather than remote. Why do you want to restrict that?

You also haven't addressed the poorer outcomes that come with lack of attendance.

40% of students currently don't have correct access to the basic technologies needed for home study. That's a huge amount which can't be remedied overnight.

YABU to assume that Universities aren't playing their part simply because it's taking longer than you think it ought; I work with Universities and the ones I've spoken to since this Covid-19 situation came out are breaking their necks to ensure that all students have access to everything they need, particularly vulnerable students.

There's also a very real possibility that long-term remote studying at University level is harder on a students MH than face to face learning. I think making more courses remote would detract hugely from the benefits that University life can bring.

OU still pays for accommodation. Lots of face to face teaching still goes on. The TV adverts don't ever mention this, funnily enough.
Universities are not known for passing on savings to students. Look at their use of cheap teaching labour.

long-term remote studying at University level is harder on a students MH than face to face learning

very much agree with that.

My daughters Uni are doing everything online at the minute, she is struggling with motivation to log in but she is also working almost 40 hrs as a key worker, she previously worked maybe 10 hrs a week. She has advised tutors of this but no reply! I’m hugely proud of how she’s coping with this and the degree she is doing definitely needs human interaction.

DD is struggling with motivation as well. She did an online lecture and wrote up an online lab "practical" this afternoon. But found it hard.

Most of my students aren’t currently engaging with the online teaching I have set up.

YABU.

I think universities are moving far too slowly and are set up for attendance not distance learning, and too reluctant to change
Another one of those threads where an OP makes grand pronouncements about entire sectors and the quality of their teaching provision.

Excellent.

for those in HE at this current time.

Universities have had to address online provision because of industrial action in recent years. In my experience students are reluctant to engage.

Most of my students aren’t currently engaging with the online teaching I have set up.

Ditto.....and they’re complaining they feel isolated

Please explain how an online MOOC course is worth £9000 to a UK student and £50,000 to a non EU

What MOOC charges that Listening? I thought they were more or less free.

MOOCs are free or very cheap. They aren't comparable to a degree or master's I'm afraid

Depends on subject, surely. I did 9-5 or 9-6 every single day, at least 3 of those hours every day were lab sessions and it would be incredibly difficult to replicate these at home - you needed expensive microscopes (multiple types), slide material, specimens, plus larger equipment like SEMs and some pretty weird and expensive subject specific kit. We also had to spend large parts of our time in the field.

English lit with 3 hours of lecture a week and a few tutorials, on the other hand, could easily be done online. I've actually done some MOOC and OU type courses as part of my professional development, and these were doable online.

I have a feeling most of you are going to be pretty upset when things turn back to normal.

Doable is one thing. A good learning experience quite another. If this crisis has taught us nothing it's that online delivery is not a good substitute for face to face for most people.

Leaannb
Nope, I'll be delighted when my kids can resume their lab based degrees

I’m a lecturer at a university that’s moved everything online. I’m actually not currently teaching as most of my post is research right now, but I do have students I am tutor for and I’m also supervising several MSc dissertations. Besides all the advantages of face to face learning and socialisation (dh pretty much only made it through uni because he made wonderful friends on day 1 and they are still his closest support network more than a decade later), my students would not fare well in an online format long term.

They’re incredibly bright and engaged and motivated (I work at a very top Russell Group uni), but they’re struggling at home. They’re bored and lonely and don’t have their friends and they are missing out on so much of the full package that we provide. This involves professional development and networking and research opportunities. You can’t do that sort of stuff remotely because it involves using and developing face to face personal and professional skills.

Beyond that, particularly for undergraduates, it’s about building life skills. Students come to us not knowing how to do really basic adult things, like getting up in the morning on time or living away from home. My own first year uni roommate had never done her own washing and I had to teach her how to wash her clothes. In my own experience, the people who didn’t leave home for education or work in late teens and early 20s have struggled.

A traditional university environment isn’t for everyone. And the OU does a fantastic job of filling that gap for most. Other programmes provide great opportunities for specific students who need a non-traditional set up. But most students want to be face to face with their peers and us.

It can be Titchy, but only if they choose it. Online suits some people and some universities are very good at it. It takes time and investment to get good at it, that would never happen overnight.
Durham, for example, are severely underestimating what is involved.

I agree with you mind.

No, I'll be bloody delighted when we go back to normal. Virtual delivery is no substitute for face to face.

There is a lot of blurring on this thread between broad university life (making friends etc) and the course offering. There is no logical reason why the social/pastoral element should be a necessary requirement of achieving a qualification in political science or Medieval art.

It not a reason to justify:

1. keeping quality teaching from people who are appropriate, and would benefit and pay for the course
2. the disservice to the discipline not to reach as widely as possible
3. social distancing and environmental concerns

I haven’t said students must be kept from campuses. I have said that courses that can be online should be.

I’m sorry but not surprised to hear that students are demotivated and feeling isolated at the moment. If it is any consolation, at the moment I hear this from every WFH professional I speak to as well.