To argue with the ILs?

[CaptainShakespeare]

ILs and I fundamentally disagree about religion (they're strict Catholics, I'm atheist). After a few heated exchanges when DH and I first got together (instigated by them) we've all silently agreed to a truce where we usually just don't mention it. Fine by me.

The only time it comes up nowadays is when they pester us to send the DCs to Catholic school. And also when they want the DCs baptised. And when they want us to go to church at Christmas. So actually, thinking about it, quite a lot. I have a standard response which I use to shut the conversation down along the lines of 'I'm not going to argue/explain why that's not happening because we won't agree and we don't need to agree as it's a decision for DH and me only.' This is usually enough to halt any potential argument, albeit with bad grace from their side.

We have a WhatsApp group with DH's immediate family. Tonight MIL has sent a joke about atheists that I find really enraging. The inference of the joke is that atheists are smug and stupid. MIL has followed up the joke with an explanation that she finds it so funny because the atheist subject has been 'put in his place' for 'thinking he knows best.' No acknowledgement that everyone with an opinion 'thinks they know best;' that's what faith or belief is!

For some reason it's really pissed me off. I want to say something. Maybe point out that I could reverse the joke to make it the same point against Catholics, but I wouldn't send that to her as it would be rude and upsetting to her.

For context, the group is MIL, FIL, their 2 adult DC and me. Neither DH nor his brother are religious, so it's not like it's a part of a family culture they all share that I've come in to. Also for context, generally aside from this we have a good relationship.

WIBU to say something? Is it the job of the DIL to step back in this situation because it's not 'my' family? Or do I have just as much right to say it's rude as MIL does to say it?

If this was a one off I'd let it go. It just feels like a constant imbalance where the only reason we aren't constantly arguing about this is I've learned not to react, not to retaliate, ignore and be nice, but to be honest I don't see why that's my role.

They're people who take great offence to being called out or criticised, but are perfectly happy to share their strong opinions themselves. If they were my friends I'd take a 'sauce for the goose' approach and say my piece, but am I expected to act differently because it's my ILs?

I have similarly difficult interactions with the ILs over a different issue. I've learned (slowly) that they will never see my point of view or change their mind so I just avoid interactions where they are likely to discuss said topics. I'd leave the group quietly without a fuss. If they want a fight, let them start it. Just keep saying what you have done so far ... that you'd like to agree to disagree and don't want to discuss further. My ILs don't try and provoke me any more because they know I won't bite so there is no sport.

It's really weird that she's sent that go a group of 5 people, 3 of whom are atheists. I wouldn't say anything, purely because if your DH and BIL are also atheists then she's being rude to all three of you and I would leave it to the brothers to raise the issue with her.

What does your DH do when one of these moments happens?

And as for the issue of whether you should behave differently because they are your ILs. It's tricky. My personal choice is not to pick a fight or rise to the air, but also to choose not to spend much time with them or have any social media contact. That way DH can continue to have whatever relationship he wants but I don't have to put up with too much nonsense.

do absolutely nothing. Don’t respond and stay off for a couple of days, until others have made a few comments. That way, she’ll be pissed if she thinks her moment has passed and you didn’t see it, as it’s been pushed up the timeline.

It’s weird that she’d send that. Don’t validate it by engaging, just ignore.

Btdt

With regards to the joke, As long as it doesn’t happen too often, i just ignore. In fact, I ignore it like all the other pointless drivel the ILs and my father insist on forwarding.

Probably best not to reply and pretend you haven’t seen it. Then if they have sent it to get at you they will look a bit stupid.

what time was the message sent? If you reply now every one will see that you’ve stewed over it and then eventually responded to it. So on that basis alone I’d leave it.

Obviously it was antagonistic - shes bored. Wants a bit of excitement. Don’t bite. Completely ignore

Ignore it. Don't rise to the bait. And yes, you do need to behave differently with inlaws than you would with friends. You can choose your friends, but (assuming everything is sound with your DH) you are stuck with your inlaws.

Just want to add I have a Irish catholic family. When I visit I wonder why the fuck I have as they ram it down my throat!

I would reply to the group that the joke is unnecessarily unpleasant and mil should apologise for her crass behaviour

She did it to get a reaction. Ignore.

I would leave the group & have as little to do with them as possible. When I did have to interact with them I would be polite but distant.

They are pushing at perfectly reasonable boundaries you have set for them about not interfering in how to raise your children regarding school, baptism, churchgoing. You have a polite appropriate way to shut that down so now MIL is making provocative comments in the family group. I would not give her the time of day myself. I wouldn't argue or confront, she may be looking for a row so she can prove you wrong in her mind. I would just disengage.

Your husband can pursue whatever contact he wishes to have with them. I would be careful about unsupervised contact with your children as they clearly don't respect your views & parenting choices.

I'd send an equally offensive one about Catholics back

I wouldn't describe either DH or his DB as atheists, more just 'not religious/ don't care.' I'm the only one who cares enough to be actively atheist if that makes sense. Back in the early days where I was stupid enough to get into arguments with them it was mostly about my views on the church's impact on women's rights. So it does feel like a wind up more to me than their DSs.

DH responded by saying 'replace the word atheist with Buddhist/Hindu in that joke.' (If you do that the joke is bordering on discriminatory). That's what triggered MIL's justification of why she found it funny. He's good at criticising calmly without raging about it like me!

Grey rock
If she meant nothing by it she won’t notice, if she wanted a reaction you will deny her that

Ignore

Not everything needs a response. Overtime your lack of interest in her attempts to cause drama will show you are the better person. Let her embarrass herself, you won't be the only person in the GC who will think she sounds pathetic.

Those of you saying she's trying to get a reaction are spot on. It's the constant smugness of 'I can poke and poke and wind you up and you can't do anything about it' that enrages me more than the comments themselves.

I know the sensible approach is to ignore and disengage, I'm just so sick of having to. I feel like I've been manipulated into complete passiveness.

To clarify, where I say we argued in the past, I'd describe what I did as debated rather than argued. They would raise a topic and I would take it at face value that they were happy to have discussion/ debate where we disagreed. The consequence was MIL shouting and crying, and FIL storming off. So I learned not to engage, and feel like I've been primed into a 'put up and shut up' role where they can continue to say what they want without consequence.

You can't control her actions, you can only control your own reaction. As pp have said don't bite, don't react. I get why you're angry and I'd be angry too. I'm a lot older now and I pick my battles. If you think she's enjoying this and trying to poke and poke at you. Just grey rock, practice your rants and cutting comebacks when you're alone. Just shut down don't respond or react.
It takes the wind out of a bully's sails when you don't bite.

Thank you all. I'm trying to be the bigger person but I'm not sure I am a good or better person, because I really don't want to keep biting my tongue!

I'm also aware of the inconsistency of starting off saying we have a truce, then now saying it's 'constant.' It's because the more I think about it the more examples come to mind and the more I wind myself up. In fairness to MIL, the truth is probably somewhere in between 'truce' and 'constant.'

Perhaps you can get to a point of detached amusement picturing how disappointed she'll be at the lack of reaction from you.

Why not send the same joke about Catholics? Why can't you be just as rude and offensive as she is? Stop being passive. Send the message and let the miserable woman kick off.

My stand reply is this.
Ok so God created things.
The earth , the sky , the universe.
So you need something , that you call God to create everything...
Her answer will be a smug yes...
Keep her going as long as you want.

Til you say this.

So who created GOD?

Then just smile at her.

I'm so tempted, but I feel sorry for DH. No one had ever argued with them before I came along. I tend to just rant privately to him about them, and he stands up to them calmly because he does agree with me, but I have a feeling he'd be happier living in 'blissful ignorance' without me pointing out when they're being awful.