To argue with the ILs?

[CaptainShakespeare]

ILs and I fundamentally disagree about religion (they're strict Catholics, I'm atheist). After a few heated exchanges when DH and I first got together (instigated by them) we've all silently agreed to a truce where we usually just don't mention it. Fine by me.

The only time it comes up nowadays is when they pester us to send the DCs to Catholic school. And also when they want the DCs baptised. And when they want us to go to church at Christmas. So actually, thinking about it, quite a lot. I have a standard response which I use to shut the conversation down along the lines of 'I'm not going to argue/explain why that's not happening because we won't agree and we don't need to agree as it's a decision for DH and me only.' This is usually enough to halt any potential argument, albeit with bad grace from their side.

We have a WhatsApp group with DH's immediate family. Tonight MIL has sent a joke about atheists that I find really enraging. The inference of the joke is that atheists are smug and stupid. MIL has followed up the joke with an explanation that she finds it so funny because the atheist subject has been 'put in his place' for 'thinking he knows best.' No acknowledgement that everyone with an opinion 'thinks they know best;' that's what faith or belief is!

For some reason it's really pissed me off. I want to say something. Maybe point out that I could reverse the joke to make it the same point against Catholics, but I wouldn't send that to her as it would be rude and upsetting to her.

For context, the group is MIL, FIL, their 2 adult DC and me. Neither DH nor his brother are religious, so it's not like it's a part of a family culture they all share that I've come in to. Also for context, generally aside from this we have a good relationship.

WIBU to say something? Is it the job of the DIL to step back in this situation because it's not 'my' family? Or do I have just as much right to say it's rude as MIL does to say it?

If this was a one off I'd let it go. It just feels like a constant imbalance where the only reason we aren't constantly arguing about this is I've learned not to react, not to retaliate, ignore and be nice, but to be honest I don't see why that's my role.

They're people who take great offence to being called out or criticised, but are perfectly happy to share their strong opinions themselves. If they were my friends I'd take a 'sauce for the goose' approach and say my piece, but am I expected to act differently because it's my ILs?

Another vote for leave or mute the WhatsApp group. I don't see why you have to play nice with DH's family when it's all one way. Leave interaction with his family to him. Step back from visiting them too. You can't fix MIL - there is no way you can have a reasoned debate, but you can reduce her opportunities to annoy you.

I would either leave the group or stop reading the messages.
I can't see the point of the group anyway.
If mil or fil need to know anything about the dc, they can ask your dh.

Here is the best piece of advice I’ve heard about arguing with stupid or irrational people:

Never try to play chess with a pigeon. They knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board, and then strut around like they’ve won the game.

The simple answer is your children will make up their own minds when they get to an age they are able to understand and make that decision

It’s abuse to push religion down children’s throats

She knows it upsets and angers you, which is precisely the reason she is doing it. As my DP would say - "I'm trying to see things from your point of view but I can't shove my head that far up my arse".

What's your husbands opinion? Can he tell them this behaviour needs to end?

I've just read to your post where you said you have autism. It all makes sense now.

This is just another occasion where you have to learn to let go. Because it will be affecting you happiness and well being. I say this as a mum to 2 autistic children. Whatever your coping strategies are, use them. Don't engage, as you will be preventing yourself finding any sense of calm.

It's not really about someone having different opinions to you, is it!? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is more your reaction and not being able to drop it.

Breathe deep. Find your coping point and use it.

X

I'd say it depends on the rest of your relationship. If it's usually good then I'd just leave the group and then they can't do it again. If they ask why, dh can say your joke wasn't funny even with an explanation and you were offended.
If it's a bit crap and they make digs constantly then I'd post an anti religious joke and explain why it's funny, then probably leave too.

They send like too much hard work to be a group, let dh sort them out

I wouldn't leave the group, but I'd certainly stop looking at it! I assume you can mute notifications for it?
If you leave, they'll have the satisfaction of knowing they got to you - if you just don't respond, they won't even know that you're not seeing their digs.

But they do sound quite painful to deal with, so I wouldn't bother.

Ignore ignore ignore. No matter what u say she is never going to respond with anything helpful. There wont be a resolution. She is too stuck in her ways to ever say "actually your right I never saw it that way before". Dont fight fire with fire. It takes 2 to argue and its not worth it. Dignified silence will say it all anyway. She wants a reaction dont give her one.

I think I'd reply: I don't get it.

Do your ILs know about your autism diagnosis? I’d be more concerned about your MIL’s rabid delight in deliberately goading someone with autism, rather than the stupid religious bigotry. (Although ablist bigotry is a similar concept, it feels even more repulsive to me for some reason.) I think that you and DH need to have a very big discussion about this as well as your expectations regarding what you wanted from him on that WhatsApp conversation - ie - You wanted him to tell his mum to pull her head in because that kind of conversation has always been, and will always will be offensive to you, and it can only have been aimed in your direction, and for that purpose.

None of this is about religion, or atheism or autism or much of anything else - it's about OP's MIL being plan rude.

You could substitute the religion issue for anything else - MIL uses teapots and OP just puts the teabags in the cups. MIL thinks this is stupid and OP is arrogant for continuing to do it this way. Ridiculous, right??

She is insulting OP for having a different view. That's rude, petty, childish and disrespectful.

Obviously religion is an emotive topic and I'm being a bit silly with the teapot example. But OP is not just as bad for being frustrated with MIL's attitude.

I would be tempted to say, "oh I didn't realise we were ok to make mean jokes about each other's views here, excellent, I've been saving some good ones about Catholicism" and then wait for the explosion... but you'd definitely be better just sending an eye roll emoji and refusing to engage further!

Don’t rise. Not worth it..

Sounds like a wonderful excuse to leave the WhatsApp group. Don’t waste it.

I'm not autistic and that would piss me off too. I don't see why you shouldn't respond because they're you in laws. Fuck em.

@mummy2017 has that ever actually convinced somebody to abandon their religion?

I can't see how any Christian would have replied with a "smug yes" when you suggested that they "need something to create everything".

OP I would have no problem in sharing religious jokes in the group; if they give it out they should be able to take it.

Religion aside, it appears their own children don't disagree with them ever. It'll take a while and they'll probably always resent you but they will realise you deserve respect.

How about. Knock Knock, who’s there. Remember when the Catholic Church killed millions of innocent women by calling them witches, covered up massive child abuse and raised the Evil mother Theresa to a saint when she made sick people suffer and used the money to recruit.

Please don’t leave it. I used to think leaving everything was the best way forward but it’s not. In life you need to define your boundaries for how you would like to be treated. Your husband needs to step up now and tell them your boundaries as a couple. You do have a m’n’law prob but you also have a hubby prob.

I find the eye rolling emoji great in these situations, or a thumbs up for extra sarcasm. Enough of a response that they know you've seen it, but not the response they want.

To argue that there is no god to anyone religious is offensive. To an atheist (imo) saying there is one is just a matter of opinion and not really offensive.
That’s how I always look at it.
To explain it in a different way;
Religion is faith and atheist is a opinion.
So faith should (by default) be stronger than opinion.
I think.

It's just as valid to say there isn't a god than to say there isn't.

YANBU. I’m religious and get sick of the religious people are stupid comments, I believe in the ‘flying spaghetti monster’ etc etc but this is totally offensive in reverse, not acceptable to make fun of atheists.

I know exactly how you feel. I’m on my husband’s family group chat and the UTTER shite my FIL posts is beyond a joke. He’s a narcissistic, misogynistic, bullying fundamental Christian arse. I IGNORE him because it just enrages him which is vastly satisfying

I would just really crudely (like, as badly as I could manage) Photoshop the word "catholic" over the word "atheist" and repost the same picture back with a laughing face. See if it's funny then.

But I'm majorly passive-aggressive.