To argue with the ILs?

[CaptainShakespeare]

ILs and I fundamentally disagree about religion (they're strict Catholics, I'm atheist). After a few heated exchanges when DH and I first got together (instigated by them) we've all silently agreed to a truce where we usually just don't mention it. Fine by me.

The only time it comes up nowadays is when they pester us to send the DCs to Catholic school. And also when they want the DCs baptised. And when they want us to go to church at Christmas. So actually, thinking about it, quite a lot. I have a standard response which I use to shut the conversation down along the lines of 'I'm not going to argue/explain why that's not happening because we won't agree and we don't need to agree as it's a decision for DH and me only.' This is usually enough to halt any potential argument, albeit with bad grace from their side.

We have a WhatsApp group with DH's immediate family. Tonight MIL has sent a joke about atheists that I find really enraging. The inference of the joke is that atheists are smug and stupid. MIL has followed up the joke with an explanation that she finds it so funny because the atheist subject has been 'put in his place' for 'thinking he knows best.' No acknowledgement that everyone with an opinion 'thinks they know best;' that's what faith or belief is!

For some reason it's really pissed me off. I want to say something. Maybe point out that I could reverse the joke to make it the same point against Catholics, but I wouldn't send that to her as it would be rude and upsetting to her.

For context, the group is MIL, FIL, their 2 adult DC and me. Neither DH nor his brother are religious, so it's not like it's a part of a family culture they all share that I've come in to. Also for context, generally aside from this we have a good relationship.

WIBU to say something? Is it the job of the DIL to step back in this situation because it's not 'my' family? Or do I have just as much right to say it's rude as MIL does to say it?

If this was a one off I'd let it go. It just feels like a constant imbalance where the only reason we aren't constantly arguing about this is I've learned not to react, not to retaliate, ignore and be nice, but to be honest I don't see why that's my role.

They're people who take great offence to being called out or criticised, but are perfectly happy to share their strong opinions themselves. If they were my friends I'd take a 'sauce for the goose' approach and say my piece, but am I expected to act differently because it's my ILs?

Winterlife "by her own admission, OP has had many arguments with her PIL. This is just the latest volley."

But if she doesn't respond to this 'joke', she is breaking that cycle.

I'd not look at any notifications til never. And never post on the group. Your DH is there, he can deal with anything that comes up.

In fact, your ILs are your DH's parents, he can do all the phone calls, texts, cards. You do your parents, he does his. You don't need to do the wifework.

Have a look at Grey Rock Technique. Break the cycle.

Difficult situation. You will never change them. If they get a kick out of starting arguments they will do it more if you react.
I have a similar problem with casual racism from ILs. I don't feel I can ignore it but arguing doesn't help either. And I can't refuse to see them or have them in the house. Loudly changing the subject seems to be the best way to deal with it. We don't have a whatsapp group but if we did I would leave it if it was used to mock or belittle people's beliefs. How unpleasant!

Could you just say something like, "Oh I think I'd better leave this conversation now" and just not even look at the group chat for a month or so (long enough to make her think about what she's done)?

Leave the group without responding.
They’ll know you are pissed because you’ve left but you’ve been the bigger person by not engaging.

She's not really setting a good example of Catholicism, is she?

Roll your eyes and chuckle to yourself in person.
I always find it funny how people can be so nasty about their religion. Like they think they're better people because they're religious and you're just some sinner destined for hell and yet they show themselves up. Do you think you'll get into heaven behaving like this?

Personally, I disagree with religion, but dont know whether god exists. If religion is correct I want nothing to do with god anyway, it's a cruel and narcissistic creature.

My advice would be to ignore ignore ignore. What I would actually do is send back an offensive joke about catholics.

Ignoring is probably the best thing to do but I do love the thumbs up response to everything she posts - it gives the "What you're trying to say doesn't bother me in the least, in fact I probably haven't even read what you posted" vibe.

However, if it were me (and I am very good at burning my bridges so please don't do this) I would occasionally post news articles about catholic priests abusing children just to see what she'd say.

The best advice is to ignore her but I'm the kind of person who wouldn't be able to let it go and would start an argument and get myself even more annoyed!

As a lapsed Catholic I would just say enjoy your cult.

Religious people believe they are right. I am atheist and I believe I am right. I will never ever discuss this with anyone especially some one with a faith. Whatsapp groups are the work of the devil. Leave the group. If they want to make an anti atheist joke you wont hear it. Dont fight with them, you will all lose. Your OH should deflect them from trying to get you to christianise your children, not your problem

To argue that there is no god to anyone religious is offensive. To an atheist (imo) saying there is one is just a matter of opinion and not really offensive.
That’s how I always look at it.
To explain it in a different way;
Religion is faith and atheist is a opinion.
So faith should (by default) be stronger than opinion.

I think.

Ricky Gervais said if God exists why did he make me an athiest?

yeah just to add, ignore ignore ignore. At the end of the day you have put boundaries in place, so you just need to hold firm, don't engage. It's hard but it will get easier. Try to put it out of your head by meditating, or if the thought comes into your mind imagine pushing it away. It's really hard, but it does work eventually. Take it from someone with a very judgemental and opinionated family :) The thing that annoys and winds them up most is when I don't engage. They know my views and they've sorta kinda given up needling me cos it gets no reaction. Stay strong OP.

To argue that there is no god to anyone religious is offensive. To an atheist (imo) saying there is one is just a matter of opinion and not really offensive.
That’s how I always look at it.
To explain it in a different way;
Religion is faith and atheist is a opinion.
So faith should (by default) be stronger than opinion.
I think.

Hmm. I don't think atheists accept it's an opinion. They think it's a fact that there is no god. Similar to how it's a fact that the earth isn't flat. Opinions are more along the lines of whether you think it's a good idea to discuss religion with in laws. ;-)

OP, when religion is mentioned again (and it will be) try using the phrase "I am too old to believe in invisible friends"
It will cause much anger!

I’d leave the group. You can get your info via your husband without being on it, and it clearly winds you up. Your husband has responded calmly anyway- no need to add more.

To argue that there is no god to anyone religious is offensive. To an atheist (imo) saying there is one is just a matter of opinion and not really offensive

Sending a rude “joke” that atheist are arrogant is rude...

Just send an emoji of something completely unrelated, like a flamingo followed by a hotdog.

It will cause much confusion as she won't know if this is some sort of robust atheist riposte she doesn't quite 'get'/your phone being weird/you taking the piss.

Ideally get dh to reply with a ROFL face followed by a fox & a spanner or something.

@Worriedmum54321 yeah I agree. For an Atheist, God not existing is a fact. But shouldn’t be considered offensive if someone states there is.

Back to you OP. Are you going to tell your kids to believe in Father Christmas? Because that’s make believe and harmless isn’t it?
So if you truly do not believe in a god, having a baptism for them should not really matter to you.
Words like “god” and “devil” and “Jesus” will jus be like any other words.

Why be so offended by it?

@crispysausagerolls I agree, sending that joke was rude. But she was offending OP intelligence and nothing else.

@PurpleCrowbarWhereIsLangCleg best reply ever!!!

OP, i totally understand how you feel.
I was brought up in a muslim household but am not a muslim and have been vocal about that since my teens.
Funnily enough - my issue with patriarchal religions is centred around Women's rights too..........

The injustice of it is getting to me
It SHOULD....YOU are a woman - and you're being conditioned and programmed to "put up and shut up".
You haven't realised just how much of your power and autonomy they are taking from you - I was asking whether I should/could respond - since when do YOU need anybody's 'permission' to stand up for yourself and your rights?!!!!!!
They've even got you deferring to a man - your husband - to speak for you....but he isn't actually telling them to stop their harassment.....and he won't because he too has been conditioned to tolerate their abuse.

Your PIL sound exactly like mine - narcissistic and abusive and taking any opportunity to harass you - that's exactly what her constant digs at you are.
She does it deliberately to wind you up.

The explanation essentially says 'atheists believe there is no God, so they need putting in their place because it's arrogant for them to think they're right
Your silence encourages her and enables them all to carry on this toxic crap.

The consequence was MIL shouting and crying, and FIL storming off. So I learned not to engage, and feel like I've been primed into a 'put up and shut up' role where they can continue to say what they want without consequence
Yup - narcissistic bullies.

I think it's high time YOU responded to MIL with the full force of your thoughts and emotions.
SHE needs putting in her place - and the longer you leave it to your husband to 'deal' with the longer this shit will go on.
She will poison your children too - they will see their mum being bullied and having the piss taken out of her - and they're going to see how powerless she is to stand up to her bully.

Your in-laws are not going to stop unless YOU put some boundaries in place.
Frankly i wouldn't let a poisonous bitch like her anywhere near me or my kids.
In fact, i'd have been telling her to shove her opinions up her arse from day one because she's a brainwashed, narcissistic bully.

If this is an itch you really need to scratch, perhaps something along the lines of : “Pride comes before a fall MIL. We wouldn’t want to see you condemned to hell. 😁”