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Schools could reopen in weeks

635 replies

Orangeblossom78 · 10/04/2020 15:21

In todays "Times"

"Schools could reopen in a few weeks as coronavirus restrictions begin to be lifted, Public Health England suggested this morning.

Paul Cosford, the agency’s emeritus medical director, said that easing the lockdown for the young first was being considered as ministers look to set out an exit plan for the coming weeks.

Finding a way out of lockdown is the government’s “number one topic and priority”, according to Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London, one of its leading advisers on the epidemic.

Professor Cosford said: “People are doing really well with the social distancing and it is working as far as we can see to flatten this pandemic,” but acknowledged the balance between controlling the epidemic and allowing normal life to resume.

He said that now was not the moment to relent, telling Today on BBC Radio 4: “Once you start getting things under control, that’s the time you absolutely need to continue with all your measures so that you can bring the disease right down and crack it.”

He expects there to be “a lot of discussions over the next week or so” about an exit strategy. Asked if restrictions might be eased in several weeks, he said: “I think several weeks isn’t unreasonable. Let’s hope it’s sooner than that.”

He said that starting by letting the young resume normal life was being considered. “The importance of children’s education, children being in school is paramount. That’s not the only issue but I could conceive of circumstances where some of the restrictions are lifted sooner and some are lifted later,” he said.

“There are some really difficult issues here because if you look at children and the closure of schools, a very important measure to help get this under control, but we do know that children are very low risk of getting serious complications of this disease.”

Professor Ferguson told the same programme that while hospital admissions appeared to be plateauing, “it’s going to be several more weeks before we can definitively conclude anything about the rate of decline and therefore when measures could be lifted”.

He said it was “good news” that more people were obeying social distancing rules than the government expected and said that “measures will be targeted probably by age, by geography” on lifting lockdown.

“There are lots of ideas worth exploring. That’s what’s happening right now. We clearly don’t want these measures to continue longer than is absolutely necessary — the economic costs, social costs, personal costs and health costs are huge.”

Head teachers are lobbying the government to reopen schools before the summer holidays, even for just a few weeks, if scientific advice says that it is safe.

Paul Whiteman and Geoff Barton, the general secretaries of the NAHT and ASCL head teachers’ unions, have told ministers pupils would benefit greatly from schools reopening before the summer, rather than waiting until September.

They believe that even a few weeks of school would help pupils remember what formal learning is like and what is required of them. If schools do not open before the summer children will have been away from the classroom and formal learning for more than five months.

The Department for Education is said to have shown a “genuine interest” in the approach, which would see pupils return for a number of weeks during the summer term to “reacquaint themselves with the educational environment”.

The government has made clear that it is too soon to consider reopening schools after the Easter holidays following speculation that pupils could return as soon as April 20.

“That said, once the scientific advice is that schools can return safely, they should do so, even if it’s for a very limited period before the summer break, as this will allow young people to reacquaint themselves with the educational environment,” the two leaders told Schools Week journal.

However, they warned that any return to normality “has to be a planned one”.

“It can’t be about flicking a switch on a Friday night and then thinking it’s all going to be all right on a Monday morning,” they said.

OP posts:
clicktheadlink · 12/04/2020 11:49

we simply cannot rush things through on the basis that children are not affected by the virus I do agree with this, of course, but we do already have a body of knowledge about this. We ignored leading scientist/doctor's advice about the virus for months at a huge cost - we were being given clear warnings about this in January, and at the end of January they had located the dna of the virus, and with their learned expertise from other similar viruses were giving clear advice - and I really think that we need to put them centre stage about a return to normality. They have said it is recognised that it is not realistic to keep children off for months. We need to listen to them about what is needed to keep people safe in a phased return to normality and their informed opinion about risk.

clicktheadlink · 12/04/2020 11:54

Click I do agree but I would rather my dd mixed with a couple families on walks and playing outside for a few weeks before going back into the tiny corridors and rooms of our packed Academy me too. we haven't missed out on ed at all because the school has been sending through an onslaught of fairly complicated worksheets!! In fact, if there are those who want to get out more but be slow to send their dc back to school then if for those children the school can carry on sending out specific things to be done at home that would probably ease the burden on the schools and allow a phased return.

HoffiCoffi13 · 12/04/2020 12:16

We dont know everything about this coronavirus, but we know a lot (well, scientists do) about the coronavirus family. Chicken pox is from the same family as herpes, and we know that’s a virus that lies dormant in cells for years. We know that that doesn’t tend to happen with coronaviruses.

drspouse · 12/04/2020 13:14

My DS has nobody to mix with outside school and my DD has few choices, and allowing "families to mix" is a recipe for people setting up huge gatherings - at least if schools are open (and it is likely to be part time or some children only at the start) they can choose the most vulnerable first.
Some children will die due to being off school for lengthy periods. That's fairly certain - abuse or neglect in the home, or mental health issues.

refraction · 12/04/2020 13:22

My DS has nobody to mix with outside school and my DD has few choices, and allowing "families to mix" is a recipe for people setting up huge gatherings

I meant playing out with a friend or two or a walk with parents. Mixing im a school is way worse. It is a mass gathering.

Opening to a few more key workers may be a good idea though.

drspouse · 12/04/2020 13:25

But saying "you can mix with one family" is even more open to abuse than the current regulations.
If schools are open to a small proportion, or part time, it can be better regulated.

refraction · 12/04/2020 13:29

Guess it depends if you look at it from a public behaviour view or actual risk to the amount of people you see in a day.

As if there were 10 in a class. Those 10 could transfer to 10 families vs just 2 families mixing.

I see what you are saying that people will stretch the guidelines etc.

drspouse · 12/04/2020 13:37

Just two families won't mix though, and we have no way of knowing who they will mix with.
My DS is going in to his specialist school next week and I imagine there will be about 4 of his class in plus 2 adults. The adults in his class don't have DCs in school (the HT does but I don't think she'll muck in like she normally does). So that's 3 extra children he'll mix with. In mainstream say 9 extra children my DD would mix with if they give each child a session or two a week.
If they said "socialise privately with other families" I can guarantee at least one of DD's classmates would hold a birthday party for 9 other children ("because it's only families, we're allowed") but then all of those would see two other families each. So that's 30 families not the 10 in school if they spilt up the class.

refraction · 12/04/2020 13:44

mainstream say 9 extra children my DD would mix with if they give each child a session or two a week.

How would they do this with the teacher though? The teacher could be exposed to lots of kids if they all just had a session of so a week.

If kids were back they would think they could meet on the way home from school or at the park. It would give a false sense of security.

Now if it was 9 kids of dentists, shop keepers, plumbers etc then you may have a point.
How would the 9 be selected fairly and staffed?

I am a firm believer kids need some down time too with their friends not sit 2m apart in a room. It looks like a library in some schools not a normal lesson. So that value would have to be weighed up to.

drspouse · 12/04/2020 14:17

I was envisaging either a rota or just the more vulnerable children but more widely defined (with as you say maybe extra key workers).
I don't mean to sound unsympathetic but I'm in a job where I'm likely to be in large crowds and/or having a lot of people through my office as soon as I'm back in the actual office, and while it's unlikely to be for a while, we can't all put it off till there is a vaccine as that could be 2 years. I think there is not much to be done for teachers, just like shop workers and cleaners - we need some of them at work.

Appuskidu · 12/04/2020 14:23

I think there is not much to be done for teachers, just like shop workers and cleaners -we need some of them at work

All the small shop workers round here are heavily protected. The customers go one in, one out of the shop, they have plastic screens between them and the customer and card only payments are allowed.

refraction · 12/04/2020 14:28

Exactly Appu it can't work with a whole school back it just can't.

Social distancing will be over in a school.

Kids even now with key workers children find it hard with the 2m and hand washing.

refraction · 12/04/2020 14:34

I was envisaging either a rota or just the more vulnerable children but more widely defined

Dr I think we were talking at cross purposes anyway. My response was about the mental health to click about the mental health of the whole cohort.

So rather than a full cohort back at school I would prefer them to play out with friends,

The extra key workers totally agree with in principle.

Piggywaspushed · 12/04/2020 14:43

The point rather is re key workers that the government thought many schools would be 20 % full based on their lists so we can't really open up to more...The fact that in fact 2% are attending at all speaks volumes about the decisions parents are making.

refraction · 12/04/2020 14:50

Absolutely agree Piggy.

I will go in when I am on the rota. Dd is staying at home while its just key workers in.

FreakStar · 12/04/2020 14:57

piggy- I think there will be more in different areas though- my school has around 10-20% in most days! I would imagine schools in more deprived area there are more.

Branster · 12/04/2020 15:31

HoffiCoffi13 I don’t disagree with following the theory of looking at the ’type’ of virus in order to understand covid 19 and the available knowledge on coronaviruses in general forms the basis for a lot of the current advice. Which is good.
But there is a lot of talk about viral load where a person whose immune system would ordinarily be able to fight the infection goes into overdrive when repeatedly exposed to the virus and that in itself can cause death. Older children (15+) could possibly react like this.
It’s not clear yet why much younger children appear to not be affected by the virus, maybe the particular receptor cells where the virus multiplies are not developed enough up to a certain age. I haven’t followed this idea so haven’t read enough on this theory. It may well be false.
We definitely need more reassurance before all children are sent back to school.
A rota system seems the most realistic approach but that still leaves school staff exposed to risk. From the caretaker to the headmistress. And, it would be sensible to draw up a clear protocol on interaction and hygiene within the school environment In order to reduce risk of infection.
Depending on how things evolve, we might end up with a lot of restrictions on day to day interaction like compulsory face masks for everybody, no hand shakes etc until things settle. Once other countries adopt such measures, UK would get its head around the idea. I find it hard to think I wouldn’t be able to hug and kiss my family, friends and their children for a number of months but it would be something to consider if it means it helps all of us.

Piggywaspushed · 12/04/2020 15:36

I know this freak : this is the national figure. The school opposite me started with 100 children on Day 1 (!) and now ahs about 8, so parents definitely found other solutions.

I imagine some of this was the kids coming home saying how bored they were.

Mumof2202022 · 12/04/2020 16:25

My DD is still in school. There's around 20-30 of them out of the 600 that are on roll. Definitely not boring though. She's having a genuine fab time

JesmondDene · 12/04/2020 17:23

Just under 5% of pupils attending in the large LA I work for.

TrishTeres · 12/04/2020 23:46

I would imagine beginning of May. Possibly school optional at parents discretion. e.g. If a family live with an elderly relative they may chose to further isolate. We do need to balance the risks. I hope the govt are not over cautious. The cure must not be worse than the malady. The most successful it seems to me are countries have been able to focus on testing to discern who is infected or who has antibodies. They have focused on isolation and care for the most vulnerable. The NHS needs to be for health care. Health - not lifestyle. Not harmful "identity" politics. Not harmful "choice"s.

Cantaloupeisland · 13/04/2020 10:12

Another day another media story - apologies it's daily fail but you get the idea from the link! They really are pushing to get schools back. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8212733/Gavin-Williamson-fears-keeping-schools-shut-Whitsun-cause-issues.html

Piggywaspushed · 13/04/2020 10:16

I love the way Mervyn King is now the cited epidemiological expert.

Appuskidu · 13/04/2020 10:28

That article is dreadful. Dr Joanna Williams is talking crap. We are not into the 4th week of school closures for a start.

The schools have been closed for 10 days.

The ex leader of the Bank of England says the schools should be the first thing to open...?!

The articles are getting worse.

CarlottaValdez · 13/04/2020 10:32

Well the virus doesn’t know if it’s school holidays or not so in terms of efficacy or otherwise of school closure it makes sense to talk about the 3 coming up to 4 weeks.

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