to let my children play in the garden?

[SlightlyHassled]

Our neighbours have complained about the noise caused by my two boys in our garden. They are age 10 and 7.

They were playing very happily (Top Trumps, as it happens) at the end of the garden furthest away from the house (and the neighbours' house) while I was indoors. I heard one of the neighbours shout, 'Oi!' but since I didn't hear anything else, I didn't think anything of it. A few minutes later, one of the neighbours yelled my name, then the other did. As I was indoors, and my boys were still playing happily, I just ignored it. A few minutes later one of them came round to say we were too loud and they were unhappy about it. He said I was reading aloud to the children and that he and his wife could hear every word. (I had been reading aloud to my children in the same part of the garden earlier in the afternoon but I wasn't doing so at the point when they complained. I don't think I was doing so any louder than the volume you'd use for a normal conversation.)

I don't think the problem is really me reading to the children. I think the problem is general noise. They have complained to us before on a number occasions about our noisy children. They are retired and don't have grandchildren, and there aren't a lot of other children living near us, so ours are the ones making all the noise that they hear. We also home educate and our boys are around and outdoors in the daytime more than the average children. We do lots of our structured lessons in the garden, and the neighbours have previously said they don't have a problem with us doing "quiet learning" out there. We don't have a TV and don't use electronic devices much, so our children do a lot of playing outdoors. It's been a long-standing problem, though the neighbours have complained about noise from indoors too. (We are two halves of a semi with only a thin wall between, and we have very echoey acoustics in our kitchen, and an open-plan layout downstairs.)

There isn't any goodwill on their part because they think we don't care and do nothing. The wife told us once she should be able to read a book in her garden at 6pm without hearing our children. They wrote to us once complaining about the noise, and complaining that we never told our children to be quiet. For the next 3 days, I did nothing different from normal but I made a note of every time I asked the boys to be quieter because of the neighbours. I did so 35-40 times a day (!), and that was pretty typical of what I was doing before they complained. We wrote back to the neighbours explaining that, but never had a response.

They don't wake up until 8.30am, and when they complained about noise from the garden before that, we stopped letting the boys out of doors until after 9am, and stopped eating breakfast in the garden. When the neighbours complained about noise from indoors, we spent £500 on sound insulation boards to go against our party wall. Unfortunately when we put the first one up, DS1 and I had an allergic reaction to something in it, and we had to take it off the wall and throw them away. We did tell the neighbours about that.

With garden noise, we always bring the children indoors as soon as they start fighting or stropping or screaming. I understand that people don't want to listen to bickering from over the fence (something else the neighbours have complained about in the past).
My children aren't especially quiet, but I don't think they're especially noisy either. My parents are always telling me how much quieter they are than my brother's 4 boys, for example.

If they're not behaving in an antisocial manner, I think it's fine for my children to be playing in their own garden and that I shouldn't be constantly on their case to play indoors, or to play with hushed voices. AIBU?

From the other side of the fence, it's horrible when you are subjected to noise all day every day.

My husband and I work from home, and when we bought our house (a semi - we would have bought a detached house if we could have afforded it!) the neighbour was a man so quiet that we didn't realise the sound insulation is appalling, and we had a few years of fantastic time enjoying living in our lovely house.

He moved out and a family with three children aged approx 5, 7 and 9 moved in, and I can hear them ALL DAY EVERY DAY. The children never walk up the stairs, but run, and there isn't a room in my house from which I can't hear the BANG-BANG-BANG on the stairs, that wakes me up at 6am and can go on until 9 o'clock in the evening.

I can hear the parents shouting at the children, including the words used. I can regularly hear screaming from the children as they engage in running around games where they chase and squeal. So I am already frazzled by noise BEFORE the kids go in the garden.

Since lockdown, the neighbours' children have been in the garden all day every day. I really do appreciate that with three children on lockdown things aren't easy for the parents, but even with my windows closed, there is no escape for me, and no question of me going into MY garden as it would be so unpleasant (the balls over the fence into my flower beds doesn't help this).

I haven't complained. But please try and have sympathy for people who didn't ask for the noise and can't get away from it.

My elderly neighbour who is self isolating on her own messaged me saying hearing the children playing in the garden is the only thing keeping her going. She has asked my son to practice her guitar in the garden (and he is terrible). Ive asked both my neighbours if they are being too loud and both have said thats what gardens are for, especially at the moment.

You seem to have had a lot of issues with them before the virus, they are just those neighbours who no matter what you do will find something to moan about.

Id just ignore.

I think in these stressful times we have to be considerate to those around us. To you, the noise of your DC playing is perfectly normal, you probably don’t even register it most of the time as you are so used to it.
To your neighbours, however, it must be very annoying that they can’t sit out and enjoy their garden.
There obviously has to be some compromise here. Perhaps bring the DC inside for a couple of hours each day so that the neighbours can have a bit of peace.
Perhaps they should consider moving to a quieter location in the future...that would be my plan I think.

Yes I think this is a balancing exercise - I was with you until you said they were out there a lot.

How much is a lot - pretty much all day every day with noise in the garden (and I think reading between the lines they can get pretty noisy). And you dont think you were louder than a normal conversation I suspect means you could well be

They should be allowed to play in the garden of course. And it should be used as a means of outdoor learning. But you do need to balance that out. All day every day in the garden because it is easier for you isnt taking into account them. I mean were you really in the garden everyday from 8 ish having breakfast?

So my advice is decide on what you think is reasonable for them to put up with.

Say breakfast in the garden a couple of times a week. Maybe sitting outside and having dinner again a couple of times a week.
Every day say 2 hours in the morning and then a couple of hours in the afternoon.

Because reading between the lines they are out a lot more than the above. It isnt unreasonable to play in the garden. It is to be out pretty much constantly (especially if one was a screamer)

Um, I think you might be being a bit unreasonable. You live in a thinned wall semi. Before your neighbours complained previously, you were eating breakfast in the garden, and letting the kids play out there before 8.30am. Even given you making changes to this pattern, it sounds like your kids are outside pretty much all day every day - doing loads of 'structured learning' , playing etc. This is very different to having kids next door who play outside for an hour or so a day. To be honest, if I was your neighbour, all that breakfasting, reading aloud, structured learning from 9am all day long, would drive me bloody mad.

I have two small children and am a big fan of them both being outdoors as much as possible but also have some sympathy with your neighbours. While they have no right to demand the children stay out of the garden it sounds like they are in there much of the day all year round. I think it would be considerate to allow the neighbours a couple/few hours of peace in the garden while your two play/home school indoors. For example, I know one of my neighbours is a late riser and sensitive to noise so I take the children for their lockdown ‘exercise’/play indoors in the morning then go out in the garden most of the afternoon

I don't think YABU because you are restricting if to civilised hours and your activities are normal, but it would be good to hear their version of the noise level.

Telling your DC to quieten down 35-40 times in one day does suggest you are pretty noisy and if you are home & outside almost all of the time, I bet that does prevent them enjoying peace in their garden.

They’re completely unreasonable to expect to be able to read a book in their garden at 6pm and hear nothing from any neighbours. That suggests that nothing will placate these people ever.

Any reasonable person would expect to hear their neighbours also using their garden at that time if it’s nice enough to be in the garden. Grass cutting, people chatting, children playing, or all manner of other things that aren’t silent are to be expected on warm evenings.

Tell them to speak to the noise people at the council if they think there’s a problem. It’ll give the environmental health officers a bit of a laugh to see a complaint about people reading to their kids in the garden mid afternoon.

To be fair there’s normal kid noise, and then there’s irritating screeching and very loud kid noise.

Dd plays in the garden all day, but she knows there’s no screaming or shouting because we have neighbours.

Depends which one your children are.

So far in the past few days, I've heard loud conversations of adults, mowing, chainsaw chopping up wood, you can hear everything outside unless you have a huge garden and are very isolated. I can hear the neighbours bickering, even just them using tools in the garden. Life is noisy outside, and expecting a quiet garden is unrealistic. I can hear the three children two doors down, it's fine. They are just not realistic about what life is like in semis and I would ignore them from now on and have a word with the community officer if they continue to harass you (no-one in the world is going to think it unreasonable for children to play outside during daylight hours). That's living in towns/cities with small gardens for you!

A friend had this problem with her neighbour and bent over backwards to accommodate him, but it was never enough and in the end she had to do what we'd all said she should have from the start, ie ignore him.

If your neighbours want perfect peace then they should have bought a detached house in the middle if nowhere.

So this isn't a new problem; it is just exaggerated because you both have fewer opportunities to venture out. If I am reading this correctly your boys are out in the garden pretty much all day, every day, from 9ish until bedtime?

Assuming that you are UK, can you not bring the boys indoors from 6pm and let your neighbours know when you plan to go out for your hour of permitted exercise? That would at least give them a couple of hours of peace.

Living in built up areas takes a bit of compromise and consideration for others. I say this as somebody that endured 2 years of the family next door home-educating their 3 boys and friends (luckily they were younger so at least they were in bed early).

@Strugglingtodomybest They’d probably find that farms and wildlife aren’t the quietest neighbours even if they did that. 😆

Some people are just miserable arseholes and there’s nothing you can really do other than ignore them.

Let them out, my neighbours kids are very noisy, the daughter sounds like Minnie Mouse on Helium she is so loud but it’s warm I live in a house with neighbours I’d be totally unreasonable asking them to be quiet, they are being kids and having fun. I sit in the garden in the evening when they are in with a lovely glass of wine.

People are always going to have a problem

I live next door to two children and the youngest screams constantly.

It’s annoying, but they are kids.

I would say think of the time outdoors as being everyone's to share and enjoy. Your children want it to play out. Your neighbours perhaps want it to sit out & enjoy some peace. The two aren't mutually compatible. Now apparently a degree of that is unreasonable - it's normal to hear children playing out.

But the moment, how is the split looking? Are your neighbours ever getting even close to a fair share of time in peace outside?

E.g. a couple of hour or more long chunks each day, not split into 5 mins here and there?

I would find it annoying having to listen to you reading a book aloud in the next door garden. It's unnecessary, do it inside.

I have 2 young DC and I am careful with with noise in the garden. I think it's about having respect for each other so all can enjoy their gardens.

You were having to tell your dcs to be quiet (even if your ds was going through a bad time) 35-40 times a day, which is an awful lot. Now with it only being 5-10 times a day you tell them off, it could maybe be that are letting them be noisier more often now without saying anything?

I know it can be annoying, not having any peace in your garden, but your neighbours do sound unreasonable.

@TeddyIsaHe that is true, my neighbour has two kids and one I know is out with his sister but he is so quiet, the sister has a voice loud enough for two (or several) of them

malbecfan we do actually have someone down the road who plays the saxophone indoors but with the windows open in the evenings. Thankfully my two haven't yet started learning musical instruments, though DH has suggested getting his trumpet back from his parents' house...

Lockdown makes things a lot more difficult, doesn't it? One of our neighbours is on the extremely vulnerable list, so isn't even able to go out for exercise once a day. If we weren't in lockdown, we'd be away visiting my parents, and soon to go away on holiday, which we've had to cancel. When DH isn't at work, we do try to get out for an hour or two's walk each day which gives the neighbours a break, but I don't always manage that when I'm on sole duty as I have lots of other things that I need to be doing.

My children are perfectly capable of being completely obnoxious and anti-social but when they do that, we immediately bring them indoors, and take them to the room furthest away from the neighbours' house until they're calm again. We've been doing that very consistently for a couple of years now, so it's not been a recent problem. The neighbours do play a radio out in their garden sometimes but I've never commented to them about it. Their cat also uses one of our flower beds as a toilet, and their bi-weekly BBQ blows horrible smoke straight into the children's bedroom (they use some weird stuff to light it with) - but those are normal things to happen in gardens, so I wouldn't complain. There are some children a few houses down who occasionally have playdates in their garden, and they are way louder than my two (and much later in the evening) but it happens a lot less often.

DH and I never shout at each other, don't habitually shout at the children, don't play loud music, didn't have parties even before lockdown, and we mostly meet to play with friends out at the park or at their houses, because I know the neighbours are sensitive, and a whole pack of children running around is probably the last thing they want to be hearing on a regular basis.

We have another neighbour next door but one who is big pals with our grumpy neighbours. Last summer she came and shouted in DH's face that we were being really selfish and unreasonable to allow our children to play football at that time of day (it was 7pm on a Sunday evening during the school summer holidays). Obviously we brought them straight indoors, but she's never said anything to us either before or since. It was our first day back at home after being on holiday for two weeks, though, so I suspect that having got used to complete quiet, she felt particularly cross about it. Again, ironically, it was on an occasion when the children were playing very, very happily without even any minor bickering.

I do think there's a degree to which anything we do short of muffling the children will be insufficient to keep our neighbours happy. We have tried to make reasonable adjustments, and they still persist in thinking we haven't bothered trying at all. And the tone of the complaints is slightly irritating. They don't say, "I appreciate it's difficult when you want your children to be able to play outside, but would you mind trying to..." They say "You're too loud. Why can't you keep the volume down?" and tell us we're not making any effort. We do try our best to be considerate, but we'd probably feel positive towards them if they demonstrated some understanding that we aren't just letting our children be needlessly antisocial. Telling us we don't even tell our children to be quiet when we actually do doesn't build a lot of goodwill.

I hate hearing my neighbours DC. They are young adults, home from Uni/ first jobs, confining themselves to home and play football, music constantly in this good weather. Ironically I have the same position and my 19 and 21 yo having a lively game of swing ball for about an hour and half yesterday must have been infuriating. And we have pretty large gardens....
My point is, we all hate each other on some scale at the moment! I am so stressed and neighbours noise is a good focus for some anger. If you’re neighbours are elderly they probably are living in even more stress. (Although they do sound like they can be a bit ridiculous even when we haven’t got a pandemic happening) Smile, empathise with them that we are all having a difficult time, remind them they were kids once and probably loved being out in the sun and point out you can’t wait to take DC for a day out, hopefully sooner than later.

my kids are past the "playing in the garden" age but when they were younger they made noise. Now all I want to do in my garden is relax with a coffee but there are other kids playing in there gardens making noise. Its just how it is and how it should be. Let your children play. Your neighbours will just have to put up with it.

I never understand why people always use "well my neighbour says they love hearing my children running around" as if that universally means it is not annoying and is almost a selfless gift for the neighbour. I think that allows people to justify taking the piss when it comes to noise, because most people do find it annoying and that's really not surprising.

The problem here is unrealistic expectations, I think. If you live in a normal neighbourhood, and in a semi, you won't get complete silence. It sounds as if whatever the OP does to mitigate her DCs' noise, it won't be enough. She's paid for extra insulation for goodness sake.

During these times, children will be in the gardens much more than they usually would because activities away from the home aren't an option.

On these threads, you always find posters who believe that the neighbours' complaints are always justified by default.

On the next rainy day that we have and you’re all inside, make sure you vacuum lots, let the kids play drums with saucepans and have a very loud game of snap!
They’ll soon appreciate the garden noise!