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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to let my children play in the garden?

360 replies

SlightlyHassled · 10/04/2020 10:07

Our neighbours have complained about the noise caused by my two boys in our garden. They are age 10 and 7.

They were playing very happily (Top Trumps, as it happens) at the end of the garden furthest away from the house (and the neighbours' house) while I was indoors. I heard one of the neighbours shout, 'Oi!' but since I didn't hear anything else, I didn't think anything of it. A few minutes later, one of the neighbours yelled my name, then the other did. As I was indoors, and my boys were still playing happily, I just ignored it. A few minutes later one of them came round to say we were too loud and they were unhappy about it. He said I was reading aloud to the children and that he and his wife could hear every word. (I had been reading aloud to my children in the same part of the garden earlier in the afternoon but I wasn't doing so at the point when they complained. I don't think I was doing so any louder than the volume you'd use for a normal conversation.)

I don't think the problem is really me reading to the children. I think the problem is general noise. They have complained to us before on a number occasions about our noisy children. They are retired and don't have grandchildren, and there aren't a lot of other children living near us, so ours are the ones making all the noise that they hear. We also home educate and our boys are around and outdoors in the daytime more than the average children. We do lots of our structured lessons in the garden, and the neighbours have previously said they don't have a problem with us doing "quiet learning" out there. We don't have a TV and don't use electronic devices much, so our children do a lot of playing outdoors. It's been a long-standing problem, though the neighbours have complained about noise from indoors too. (We are two halves of a semi with only a thin wall between, and we have very echoey acoustics in our kitchen, and an open-plan layout downstairs.)

There isn't any goodwill on their part because they think we don't care and do nothing. The wife told us once she should be able to read a book in her garden at 6pm without hearing our children. They wrote to us once complaining about the noise, and complaining that we never told our children to be quiet. For the next 3 days, I did nothing different from normal but I made a note of every time I asked the boys to be quieter because of the neighbours. I did so 35-40 times a day (!), and that was pretty typical of what I was doing before they complained. We wrote back to the neighbours explaining that, but never had a response.

They don't wake up until 8.30am, and when they complained about noise from the garden before that, we stopped letting the boys out of doors until after 9am, and stopped eating breakfast in the garden. When the neighbours complained about noise from indoors, we spent £500 on sound insulation boards to go against our party wall. Unfortunately when we put the first one up, DS1 and I had an allergic reaction to something in it, and we had to take it off the wall and throw them away. We did tell the neighbours about that.

With garden noise, we always bring the children indoors as soon as they start fighting or stropping or screaming. I understand that people don't want to listen to bickering from over the fence (something else the neighbours have complained about in the past).
My children aren't especially quiet, but I don't think they're especially noisy either. My parents are always telling me how much quieter they are than my brother's 4 boys, for example.

If they're not behaving in an antisocial manner, I think it's fine for my children to be playing in their own garden and that I shouldn't be constantly on their case to play indoors, or to play with hushed voices. AIBU?

OP posts:
JoanieCash · 10/04/2020 23:50

During term time how about timetabling them a bit more- so for example on a typical day they do 2 hrs out/in/out etc. Teaching kids compromise early is an essential life skill as you don’t live lifelong in isolation, and not considering surroundings/others is a shit life-skill. I don’t think your existence is at all wrong, and your neighbours could be awful (it’s hard to judge without really knowing volume), but a trial of a compromise might work.

SerendipitySunshine · 11/04/2020 07:10

Neighbour noise is a real nuisance. Is it possible to compromise with your neighbours and plan set times when you dont use the garden, so if it is noisy say, 10-12 each day, they know it will be quiet 12-2? That way, at least they can plan some quieter time out there?

VegetableMunge · 11/04/2020 09:38

The thing with this is there are other neighbours. It simply isn't reasonable to expect guaranteed garden quiet time when you live in an area where there are multiple other households within hearing. The OP could say yes we're going to be in the house from 12-2 or whatever, and other people quite legitimately decide to use their garden and not be silent during that time. So even if OP should do that, the expectation of being able to enforce peace isn't realistic.

Pinkdelight3 · 11/04/2020 09:44

To the people who keep asking why reading aloud is more of a problem than a conversation, have you never felt how irritating it is on a bus or train when someone is on the phone and essentially monologuing? It's WAY more irritating and distracting than two people having a conversation. When two people are chatting, it's much easier to tune out, whereas one person holding court - whether on the phone or reading aloud - innately calls attention to itself. That's what it's meant to do - the reader is reading aloud to be listened to by a quiet audience - unlike the two chatters who are a closed loop, talking for each other. In short, there is a big difference and it is more irritating and there is zero reason why it can't be done indoors. And I can't help but agree with a PP who says the 'low frustration tolerance' comment shows a certain style of parenting with most likely a very high tolerance for loud DC.

Mittens030869 · 11/04/2020 09:54

No, some of us are not bothered at all. I'm not at all bothered about having peace and quiet in y garden. I quite enjoy hearing signs of life going through on. (And no, I don't do it myself.)

Besides, even if you don't like it, you have no right to object; I very much doubt anyone would be reading aloud in their garden to their DC all day.

Mittens030869 · 11/04/2020 09:58

Also, you're deliberately ignoring the fact that the neighbours listen to their radio in the garden (frowned on in other threads) and have BBQs twice a week, which the OP and her family don't complain about.

Why is it that for some posters it's always the parents who are inconsiderate and not the neighbours?

It's about give and take. Hmm

ScreamedAtTheMichelangelo · 11/04/2020 09:59

Yeah, the problem isn’t that they’re playing in the garden, it’s that they’re living in the garden. I used to live opposite a family that did this with their driveway (no gardens) and I had to move out - 12-14 daily hours of noise that, in a house, would be normal, but was basically happening in my living room? I felt like I was living with them. I feel for your neighbours. They may well be being OTT about it but I’m guessing they’re on the last nerve with it all. Sorry.

Mittens030869 · 11/04/2020 10:02

This is happening because of the lockdown, though. The OP says they're normally out and about a lot of the time.

Also, the weather is good. I find it hard to believe this would have been an issue earlier in the year when it was cold and wet??

VegetableMunge · 11/04/2020 10:10

I don't think it's just lockdown related though? Obviously it doesn't help, but OP mentions last summer and seems to be talking about other events in the past. The neighbours were being unreasonable and hypocritical before that.

blogger4829 · 11/04/2020 10:11

YANBU. It's your garden and your children are entitled to play in it. As long as they are not causing damage to anyone else's property I don't see the problem.
My neighbours have kids and I don't expect silence if I go into my garden as I know you can't expect that from kids. If they were too loud and it was that unbearable I would go out if I wanted silence (when things get back to normality.)
Just because you have a garden doesn't mean you have a gurantee on peace and quiet. Yes that would be lovely but social life can't be silent.
I know the tolerance of everyone can be different but I think they could have a lot worse- adults can make a LOT more noise with music/gatherings/alcohol etc.

HavenDilemma · 11/04/2020 10:15

@chickedeee If they're exposing crotch or breasts then that's indecent exposure, regardless of being in their own garden. I'd report if kids were able to see without trying to

slartibarti · 11/04/2020 11:25

I find it hard to believe this would have been an issue earlier in the year when it was cold and wet??

No of course it wouldn't.
People don't want to sit and relax in their garden in the cold and rain..

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 11/04/2020 12:06

Why are people refusing to understand there is a difference between (1) monastic silence; (2) everyday garden sounds of reasonable duration; and (3) all day, every day, at telling off multiple times, levels of noise?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 11/04/2020 12:23

Fair enough, Scrimpshaw, sorry. I don't think reading to children of any age is 'cringe' and I think it incredibly self-unaware to voice that opinion.

5zeds I do read to my children, I wouldn't be doing it outside repeatedly though because, neighbours. That said, for a 10 year old child, I'd be listening to them read, engaging with them doing that.

My question to the OP was in relation to her reading to the two children together as mine - with a smaller gap - weren't interested in the same things.

It's really quite simple, anybody that impinges on anybody else either does so lightly, or nerves will be twanged. It's the same for anything that we do - other people generally don't want to be included/involved in it. If they're unwittingly 'dragged in', then there is potential for seething resentment that isn't talked about because people largely want to avoid confrontation. That's my opinion, anyway.

SlightlyHassled · 11/04/2020 19:11

For those who have asked about reading aloud to children, I used to be the literacy co-ordinator for the primary school I used to teach at. Many of the training courses I went on in that capacity emphasised the importance of children being read to by an adult or an older child, or using an audiobook. The research evidence is overwhelming that being read to as well as reading themselves is really, really beneficial to children's academic development.

We instituted time each day for every teacher to read aloud to their class, all the way up to and including Year 6. The children loved it and so did the teachers. Perhaps the importance of reading aloud to older children hasn't been communicated to parents so well yet. I don't really read to my children for their academic development, but because it's just a great way to enjoy the world together.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe I guess it never occurred to me not to do most of our fun reading with both of my children together. I see it as teaching them to love things they might not have originally been interested in rather than me just reading things I know they will like. We mostly read books which are too challenging for either of them to choose to read, which might even have been written for adults rather than children. So we're currently reading Escape From Colditz, for example, a memoir of prisoners of war in WWII escaping from their camp. And I guess my two DC don't have radically different interests, which makes it easier to choose books to enjoy together. I do read more picture book type books with my younger child as well, whose reading is not yet fluent enough for him to be able to read anything he wants.

I have a question for anyone interested in commenting - presumably it's still more considerate to read indoors even when your neighbours are indoors and therefore more exposed to your indoor reading (because of a thin dividing wall) than they would be if you read in the garden?

OP posts:
JKScot4 · 11/04/2020 19:19

I think you have missed so many points made here, you’re so absorbed in your lifestyle.
I have 4DC of my own but ndn with kids out from 8am to all hours would irritate me, stop expecting everyone to accommodate your lifestyle, you’ve had 2 ndn complain, you have to check their noise levels.
You sound very selfish and oblivious to anyone else, also why are you online when your kids aren’t allowed it? It’s not going to harm them 🙄

derxa · 11/04/2020 19:19

Many of the training courses I went on in that capacity emphasised the importance of children being read to by an adult or an older child, or using an audiobook. The research evidence is overwhelming that being read to as well as reading themselves is really, really beneficial to children's academic development. I was a LC as well and this is true. But if I was your neighbour it would do my head in. Reading aloud to a class is a performance not a low key activity.

aSofaNearYou · 11/04/2020 19:39

You seem to have focused entirely on the criticism about reading/home education rather than whether it's antisocial to do the bulk of it in your garden.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with you doing any of that inside, thin walls or not. It's considerate to keep loud noise to a minimum, of course, but it would be ridiculous to say you can't read in your house. They could also install sound proofing in their home. On the flipside, I do think it is unreasonable to a large amount of this sort of thing in the garden all day every single day, especially if it involves having to ask them to be quiet 30-40 times.

Kraejka · 11/04/2020 20:54

I have a question for anyone interested in commenting - presumably it's still more considerate to read indoors even when your neighbours are indoors and therefore more exposed to your indoor reading (because of a thin dividing wall) than they would be if you read in the garden?

How loudly are you reading if it can be heard through a wall, thin or not?

sadwithkiddies · 11/04/2020 21:28

@SlightlyHassled
I have a question for anyone interested in commenting - presumably it's still more considerate to read indoors even when your neighbours are indoors and therefore more exposed to your indoor reading (because of a thin dividing wall) than they would be if you read in the garden?

I think its more considerate to be more balanced in how much time you allow your children to spend (nosily) outdoors....

giving the neighbours chunks of time - preferably around the same times each day so the neighbours can realise the pattern and then have time in their garden - would be more considerate than pondering what you read and where you should read it.

i'd love to have my kids in the garden all day every day - but I know that's not kind to my neighbours and so give chunks of time where the garden is quiet. why is it so hard to be kind in that way?

minipie · 11/04/2020 21:52

presumably it's still more considerate to read indoors even when your neighbours are indoors and therefore more exposed to your indoor reading (because of a thin dividing wall) than they would be if you read in the garden?

Yes. The sound coming through a party wall, no matter how thin, will be far more muffled than the same sound coming loud and clear across a garden fence.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince · 12/04/2020 08:43

I never get this topic on mumsnet ever. It comes up all the time.

Where l live all the kids are out in the gardens all day. I can hear voices, screams, laughs and shouting from about 10 am to 8pm or later. No one cares.

What else are you supposed to do with kids in lockdown?

ChocolateQuiltedShitPig · 12/04/2020 09:06

Gosh they'd hate my neighbours. I think they have 3 or 4 children. All day yesterday we had music, screaming and the sound if them splashing in their pool, on the other side a toddler asking his dad a million questions. Each of these made me smile.

You have to let kids be kids, let them enjoy the sunshine! I'm expecting my first in June so plan to pay back soon hehe.

In fact, the only thing that makes me irate is the sound of the children's mother constantly shouting at them!

Fluffybutter · 12/04/2020 09:39

I can’t find sympathy,sorry.
All my neighbours have kids and they all either shout at each other constantly instead of talking or they screech and whine or they pelt a football constantly at the fence.
On girl in particular likes to go out and tease the already yappy dog by barking at it so it barks back.
It fucks me off no end , I can’t wait to move !

Fluffybutter · 12/04/2020 09:41

You have to let kids be kids I hate this term , what does it even mean ?!
Kids have to learn that they need to be considerate to others too .
Laughing is fine , screeching and shouting is not fine

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