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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to let my children play in the garden?

360 replies

SlightlyHassled · 10/04/2020 10:07

Our neighbours have complained about the noise caused by my two boys in our garden. They are age 10 and 7.

They were playing very happily (Top Trumps, as it happens) at the end of the garden furthest away from the house (and the neighbours' house) while I was indoors. I heard one of the neighbours shout, 'Oi!' but since I didn't hear anything else, I didn't think anything of it. A few minutes later, one of the neighbours yelled my name, then the other did. As I was indoors, and my boys were still playing happily, I just ignored it. A few minutes later one of them came round to say we were too loud and they were unhappy about it. He said I was reading aloud to the children and that he and his wife could hear every word. (I had been reading aloud to my children in the same part of the garden earlier in the afternoon but I wasn't doing so at the point when they complained. I don't think I was doing so any louder than the volume you'd use for a normal conversation.)

I don't think the problem is really me reading to the children. I think the problem is general noise. They have complained to us before on a number occasions about our noisy children. They are retired and don't have grandchildren, and there aren't a lot of other children living near us, so ours are the ones making all the noise that they hear. We also home educate and our boys are around and outdoors in the daytime more than the average children. We do lots of our structured lessons in the garden, and the neighbours have previously said they don't have a problem with us doing "quiet learning" out there. We don't have a TV and don't use electronic devices much, so our children do a lot of playing outdoors. It's been a long-standing problem, though the neighbours have complained about noise from indoors too. (We are two halves of a semi with only a thin wall between, and we have very echoey acoustics in our kitchen, and an open-plan layout downstairs.)

There isn't any goodwill on their part because they think we don't care and do nothing. The wife told us once she should be able to read a book in her garden at 6pm without hearing our children. They wrote to us once complaining about the noise, and complaining that we never told our children to be quiet. For the next 3 days, I did nothing different from normal but I made a note of every time I asked the boys to be quieter because of the neighbours. I did so 35-40 times a day (!), and that was pretty typical of what I was doing before they complained. We wrote back to the neighbours explaining that, but never had a response.

They don't wake up until 8.30am, and when they complained about noise from the garden before that, we stopped letting the boys out of doors until after 9am, and stopped eating breakfast in the garden. When the neighbours complained about noise from indoors, we spent £500 on sound insulation boards to go against our party wall. Unfortunately when we put the first one up, DS1 and I had an allergic reaction to something in it, and we had to take it off the wall and throw them away. We did tell the neighbours about that.

With garden noise, we always bring the children indoors as soon as they start fighting or stropping or screaming. I understand that people don't want to listen to bickering from over the fence (something else the neighbours have complained about in the past).
My children aren't especially quiet, but I don't think they're especially noisy either. My parents are always telling me how much quieter they are than my brother's 4 boys, for example.

If they're not behaving in an antisocial manner, I think it's fine for my children to be playing in their own garden and that I shouldn't be constantly on their case to play indoors, or to play with hushed voices. AIBU?

OP posts:
funinthesun19 · 10/04/2020 16:46

aSofaNearYou so a child can’t read a book with their parent in their garden just in case it distracts their next door neighbour from reading in their back garden?

I think the one who is getting distracted needs to be the one who gives up reading in the garden.

FlyingPandas · 10/04/2020 16:47

On the one hand they do sound highly intolerant. Maybe they’re just miserable arseholes.

Or maybe - they’re not, and it’s your home set up they struggle with. I can’t help wondering if the “home schooling in the garden” approach is part of the problem.

Thing is - and this is honestly not a dig at home schoolers, just an observation - if your dc went to school (under normal circumstances, obviously, none of them can at the moment!) then your neighbours would get a natural peaceful 6/7 hour break on a daily basis. Your boys would be physically away from the garden, for solid chunks or the day, five days a week.

Now yes it is your choice and your right to home school but your neighbours don’t get that “typical” school-hours-chunk of quiet time because you are (by your own admission) teaching in the garden a lot of the time.

Don’t get me wrong. I love hearing kids playing in the garden. I think lots of people do. And I have 7 and 10 year old boys. I know what they are like.

But unfortunately for your neighbours your set up is relentless for them and allows them no ‘natural’ break from your children at all.

I’m not saying “enroll them in the closest school pronto!” You will obviously have your reasons for home schooling. But maybe, when all this Covid19 stuff is over and we can go out and about freely again, consider a revised home schooling approach. Do a little more indoors. If you want to do structured outdoor learning then go to the woods/a park etc. Join some home school groups so that you are away from home a bit. And then maybe that will improve neighbours’ tolerance levels when you are at home/in the garden etc.

Or maybe your neighbours are just obnoxious. But tbh, I have to say that my parents (retired, laid back, friendly, fond of their garden; grandparents, obviously, to my 10 and 7 year old boys and generally pretty tolerant as to what 10 and 7 year old boys are like) would struggle with next door children making noise in the garden - even happy engaged constructive learning noise - more or less constantly.

VegetableMunge · 10/04/2020 16:52

I don't know really crispy. Thinking they should be able to be in the garden without hearing children at 6pm shows they have extremely unrealistic and unreasonable views about what they're entitled to expect in an area with multiple homes. So I dont think they'd let it go. They'd either whine at everyone or pick a scapegoat.

aSofaNearYou · 10/04/2020 17:00

funinthesun19 no that's not really what I mean, I'm not against OP, I think the neighbours are probably being unreasonable (certainly excessive). But if I was homeschooling my children I wouldn't do the whole day outside, because I do think that would be very annoying to live next door to, especially at a time when the garden is the only place most of us can go. Obviously doing this every now and then is fine and a lovely idea, but all day every day meaning neighbours can never be outside without listening to your school day seems a bit antisocial to me.

The only reason I mentioned reading specifically was to reply to someone asking why anyone would find reading aloud more annoying than general conversation.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 10/04/2020 17:08

Yes children make noise, but there is a happy medium between full screeching and graveyard silence.

As pp say, lots of us have to live cheek by jowl, so I don't think it's fair you take away ALL the quiet times (like when most children are at school) - it's perfectly fair for other people to want quiet times as much as you want noisy ones.

And also I don't know any parent who appreciates how loud their kids are to outsiders. You all have some magic ability to block it out, while it's nails on a blackboard for us!

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 10/04/2020 17:10

I'd be scared if I was op that the neighbours would choose to fight fire with fire.

Perhaps they'll start playing audio books in the garden while she's reading or mowing the grass, playing music etc.

Scissorsnglue · 10/04/2020 17:20

Awful advice! No tablets in this house thanks!
And yet, you are posting on mumsnet, Elves ?
Why not expand on why children of the OP's dc' ages can not have a tablet in the house, in your opinion, rather than just announcing what happens chez Elves? (ie, back up your answer!)

SlightlyHassled · 10/04/2020 17:26

Thanks for some very helpful replies: plenty for me to reflect on.

It does sound like probably reading aloud is something I shouldn't do out of doors - though since the neighbours had previously told me in writing that us doing quiet learning in the garden was fine by them (AKA reading aloud and talking about it, which was the quiet learning we were doing in the garden at the time they wrote that), I don't think it was very unreasonable to have done it on this occasion. Obviously they've changed their mind about it, which of course they can do.

The comments about home ed have been interesting, because it's clear that a lot of people don't really understand how it works in many cases. We are actually unusual in being much more school-like than the average home ed family. (Incidentally, the term used in the UK is home education, not homeschooling (which is the US term). It matters because homeschooling implies the replication of school at home, whereas home education suggests a wider range of approaches can be used. Home educators in the past had to work hard to persuade local authorities not too see school-at-home as the only possible educational approach, and ensuring the terminology reflected that was an important part of those discussions.)

Thanks again for the helpful things to think about in my situation. :)

OP posts:
louise5754 · 10/04/2020 17:28

@FlyingPandas exactly

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 10/04/2020 17:33

OP I'd take this chance to really build some bridges with your neighbours, rather than tell them to fuck off like some pp suggest!

Give them some solid uninterrupted quiet time to enjoy their garden, when your kids are inside doing quiet activities - talking about 1-2 hour plus, and tell them you want to be friends and hope you can sort this out amicably.

Taking this approach can be very disarming. We're all struggling now and an olive branch might be the thing to crack this.

Mangofandangoo · 10/04/2020 17:39

I think it's about being fair and allowing your neighbours to have what they need (a few quiet hours a day) and your boys have what they need ( fun time rampaging around the garden) but I don't think it's fair to expect the whole street to have to put up with it all the time. Children don't need to be out all day and should be able to cope with playing indoors. Having had very noisy neighbours in the past I can see how it can be quite stressful and upsetting especially if you enjoy a quieter lifestyle.

crispysausagerolls · 10/04/2020 17:52

Ok, I don’t know why and I’m sorry for how this sounds (sort of); but now that I’ve read your latest post I think perhaps you are the sort of parent who does let their children run amok and say “they are expressing themselves” or otherwise.

maddiemookins16mum · 10/04/2020 17:52

Am I the only one thinking that the Op/her boys can surely have been out in the garden for a couple of weeks (if that) unless she lives in a corner of the UK not affected by heavy rain, high winds and grey skies for the last 3 months.

CalleighDoodle · 10/04/2020 17:57

Am I the only one thinking that the Op/her boys can surely have been out in the garden for a couple of weeks (if that) unless she lives in a corner of the UK not affected by heavy rain, high winds and grey skies for the last 3 months.

Not everyone only goes in their garden only if the weather is good. Some of us live up north and have to venture out in poor weather, or we would never go out at all.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 10/04/2020 17:57

OP, you sound more considerate than many and I think as Buz suggests, if you can give your neighbours definite times when your children won't be in the garden it may make them relax a bit. I think that's really sound advice actually.

You know how it is, a small thing that happens constantly can be blown up and given disproportionate attention. Conversely, if your neighbours are told that the garden will be peaceful between x and y every day, you may find that they actually welcome and engage rather than being on the defensive all the time.

I really can't imagine that elderly/retired neighbours want to antagonise given that many people are actually conflict-averse.

Scissorsnglue · 10/04/2020 17:59

Forrest schools are out and about all year round.

OlaEliza · 10/04/2020 18:51

On what planet is reading aloud and talking about it, quiet learning?

What do you do for noisy learning?

This just reinforces the opinion that the neighbours are justified in their stance, imo.

And yeah, read to your kids inside. Reading out loud to kids aged 7/10 just seems cringe AF really.

Mittens030869 · 10/04/2020 19:01

Oh come on, how is reading aloud in the garden noisier than chatting together, which no one would object to? What rubbish!

If she and her DC were having a sing song you would have a point.

Anyway, if you'd read the thread properly, you'd have picked up on the fact that the OP said that the neighbours had previously said they were okay with them reading in the garden, but she listened to the points raised by other posters and wouldn't be doing it any more.

She's actually been quite prepared to take on board comments on here about where her neighbours may have been justified.

mummy203 · 10/04/2020 19:02

Don’t take it personally they sound difficult. You’ve got to survive the summer with them so maybe the boys could come in for a couple of hours at lunch or After give the neighbours a break.

As for post! Reading to 10year olds is not *cringe it’s lovely, read to your kids along as you can and ignore people like this 🙄

Mittens030869 · 10/04/2020 19:11

Oh, and no, reading aloud isn't something I would do. I just can't ever imagine it being all that loud, they wouldn't be shouting after all, would they??

Feetupteashot · 10/04/2020 19:11

Think @BuzzShitbagBobbly has a point. They might pipe down if they know all will be quiet say 1-2pm every day

Brefugee · 10/04/2020 20:05

Mumsnet is full of older people with a rose-tinted view of their own childrearing days.

No, it's full of younger people who have no experience of being older, which is fine but when they're older and their neighbours kids are constantly screeching in the garden next door, i hope they don't complain about it Grin

I think people should be able to enjoy a bit of peace and quiet sometimes in their garden. And i think children should be able to play in their garden and make a bit of noise. But a bit of consideration for the neighbours never goes amiss.

maryberryslayers · 10/04/2020 20:36

Absolutely now of what you have been doing is unreasonable. Of course you can read out loud to your children in your garden! Then can run, jump, laugh and play all they want. As long as there isn't constant screaming then there is no problem with being out there when ever you like. I think not letting them out before 9 is kind of you.

Tell them u it no longer wasn't to engage with them verbally and they can write letters if they so wish which you will read but you won't be replying. They can of course go to the council but as your noise levels are perfectly reasonable they will get nowhere. If they carry on you will have written evidence of their harassment.

They are unreasonable bullies and have no right to stop you enjoying your home and garden. You've done more than most would already. From here on, just don't engage with them.

Scruffyoak · 10/04/2020 20:38

I would honestly completely ignore this. I get mine in if fighting or screaming but when they play outside I think that's where they let off steam so they will shout. I would have to ignore it given the current situation!

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 10/04/2020 20:40

Reading out loud to kids is proven to have many benefits. Doesn't matter the age. Ignore anyone saying you shouldn't, OP.

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