To tell vulnerable relative they'll just have to make do

[Shrubbish]

A member of my family has learning difficulties, no formal diagnosis but struggles with basic reading/writing and social skills. They have capacity but function mentally much younger than they are. They are elderly.

They cannot and do not budget their money. This makes things difficult because they do have capacity so are expected to be responsible, but responsible they are not.

They called me this morning (2nd week in a row) and said they are running low on food and can I help. They don't bank, they use the post office so I couldn't simply transfer the money over.

Faced with the possibility of them going without until they get paid on Tuesday, I very reluctantly agreed to give them another £20.

I had to visit three different cash points as two were out of service, I then met them in a desolate car park (maintaining the 2m distance) and put the money on the floor. I was wearing gloves, not to say I think that makes things any better.

The same happened last week, they needed £10 which was supposed to be for bread, milk, cereal etc. I suspect they spent it on cigarettes.

I can't and won't do this again, but what do I say when they call me and say they're without food/electric?

I'm anxious and angry because I've put myself and others at risk, but felt obligated as they are telling me they would be without food. I have children at home and a DH who is currently taking unpaid leave, so all of our efforts to stay safe seem pointless if I continue to disregard the rules.

Feel free to give me a hard time, I encourage it. I'm furious with myself and would expect nothing less.

WIBU to say that's it, no more, either budget or go without.

I've read somewhere that Age UK is helping anyone vulnerable or self-isolating over the age of 50 for the duration of lockdown. It may be another help option.

Erm... don’t go out only for absolute emergency’s food meds etc... the relative has been going to shop doing their own shopping... no one should be out unless absolutely needed. This lady is risking her life.. I know people who have died from this one below 40 ..

OP .. ring them up and say .. I don’t think your taking this seriously. I will drop food on your door if you need it. Post offices are open for them to get money out without involving you. If that’s not sufficient then you can do no more. Don’t go again as your risking your life and it is very very serious!

I agree with stop answering the phone for now.

WIBU to say that's it, no more, either budget or go without.
Yes. You have already stated They cannot and do not budget their money.
You know they cannot budget due to learning difficulties so why would you tell them to budget or go without? You are being ridiculous.

what do I say when they call me and say they're without food/electric?
You help them. They are your family and they have special needs FFS.

If you do not or cannot do it then contact charities and FB communities and food banks to get them the help they need. Make sure they are on the priority register with their fuel provider. Don't just abandon them.

Shrubbish, what a heartbreaking situation to be in. I really feel for you - not just for this current issue, but for all you've gone through throughout your life.

I hope you are able to take time to look after yourself, physically of course, but also mentally. It sounds to me like some therapy might be really beneficial, and you certainly deserve to have some help and support.

First off, if you want to help, stop encouraging her.

Please, it's the best. If you want to ease your mind, get her an online shop.... Tea/coffee, milk, sugar, beans etc ... Sort of stuff you'd take camping!

Now, I have mental health issues, and grew up in care, and was never taught saving or control of money. Money goes into bank, it goes out the bank. Every time I've lived by myself (which has been the vast majority.of my adult life) I've struggled with money... The biggest difference, is I had no family or (to talk of) friends, who existed or could help me out.

If.i ran out.of money, then I had no money. Yes I smoked (still do) and usually had money for fags (I bought enough every time my money was paid in!

Then I did some shopping.

I never went out, I didn't drink (still don't drink in any real sense), I never had spare money, but I had what I needed. I bought second hand clothes from charity shops, or just made do.

I still am crap at money at 50. My fiancee gets the money that comes in, and she sorts the bills. If she didn't and she was like me, we'd be buggered!

Luckily, she was taught money skills as a kid.

The local councils are helping those who have been ordered to shield and are vulnerable.... The 2 are often one! If she has received a letter from the NHS telling her to shield, then the council will help.

Due to the fiancée currently under the cancer unit, and getting the shield letter, we get a food box each week.... It ain't great...
Loaf of bread, long life milk, tea bags n coffee sachets, 1 tin of tuna, a bag of cereal, a few tins of soup, 1 tin of peas, 1 tin of fruit, and a packet of biscuits, bag of veg, and a bag of potato.... So not great but enough to survive on.

Of course, I'd love to get sugar in that box ... Tea coffee n no sugar 🤮

Luckily, despite my own health issues and limitations, I can go out and do a small shop to make that box into meals.

completeley agree with ruby 8179. This poor person may be irritating but your attitude is less than kind

Tell them you are now shopping online and not going out at all. However you could add a few bits of shopping to your order if they text you. Say you will get it dropped off for them.

There are different types of capacity but they sound as if they are eligible for social care IF they agree to get involved. Those are probably questions for after lock down as social workers are working from home generally. But no harm in ringing one and getting in the queue. Getting them food and dropping it off doesn’t seem less dangerous than dropping money off.

You should have taken them food and not given money. No arguments - a food parcel or nothing.

Simply say you’ll do a small food shop but no more handing over cash.

Then stick to your guns.

They want money because they want cigs not food. I’m sorry but I’d walk away and go nc. If they want to shop for themselves then they can do everything else for themselves, regardless of an undiagnosed mental disability.

There are plenty of services out there for elderly, disabled, mentally disabled, challenging, and socially awkward people to access, your family members are refusing to access them because they know they’d probably be refused.

Stop handing money over to them, you are only enabling them to do it more.

Please contact adult services. They’re busy (as always) but are able to assess. It could be that your relative would benefit from having a financial appointee - a service like the money carer foundation would be really useful for them to have at this time, for them and for you.

If 'you' feel they have some sort of issue with their capacity maybe get a DOLS requested and they can have a representative assist with their finances. Ive had this a lot at home and in work life.

It is disheartening to come back to the thread and see that people think I'm horrible and heartless.

I think it's easy to reach that conclusion without knowing much of the back story.

I suppose it would make little difference if I sat here and listed every shitty thing she's ever done to me and I'd be here all night.

I've bent over backwards for her for years and been the "parent" whilst she pisses her money up the wall, wilfully lies and let's me down.

I don't think anybody who was dragged up the way I was, owes that parent anything other than basic kindness, yet I've gone above and beyond for her to no end.

She has capacity, she lives alone and manages just fine, she's more than capable of doing her own shopping (yet I still offered to do it for her even though I should be shielding)

She has enough insight to ensure she always pays her bills first and doesn't get into debt.

What she does with the rest of the money, ie pissing it up the wall, is a choice.

I've been reflecting on her ability to budget and clearly she can as the bills are always paid on time, no exception.

It is a case of lacking impulse control, perpetuated by the fact she knows muggings here will lend her 20, 30 pounds later on if she tells me it is for food or electric.

Before lockdown began I would regularly cook for her, take her out for coffee and food etc. I'm not selfish or heartless.

I just don't want to be making unnecessary trips outdoors and risking my life, flitting between cash points, breaking government rules - when I have a non-existent immune system resulting from sepsis.

I could be spared those trips If she would have spent her money on what she needed.

Her desire to spend her money on packets of fags as opposed to tobacco which would last longer and to treat herself to bottles of wine rather than investing in some non perishable foods for the cupboard does not trump my need to keep myself safe for the sake of my young children (one of which does have a diagnosis, autism)

Thank you for all the replies. I won't be doing it again. When I call her tomorrow I'll let her know I'm happy to help with food but nothing else.

You are very kind OP. Can you alert local services, as PP have suggested? YANBU to be concerned, frustrated & conflicted. YOu're trying to do the right thing, but the problem is, theres no right thing in this situation. It's tricky, with people you love.

However -

YAdefinitelyBU to say that 63 is "elderly." I'm a fully functional, highly productive, excessively hard-working (and high earning) 61-year old. I am not "elderly."

Good old MN -can always be relied upon for ageism.

YAdefinitelyBU to say that 63 is "elderly." I'm a fully functional, highly productive, excessively hard-working (and high earning) 61-year old. I am not "elderly." - I'm sorry, I am aware that isn't elderly. When I posted my OP I was trying to be vague.

OP apologies - I've just read further (in my defence, you did do a massive drip feed) but just to say - you are very far from heartless.

One of my parents - totally compos mentis & indeed very very intelligent (but totally lacking emotional intelligence) - has made some spectacularly bad financial & life choices - and has expected me & my siblings to bail them out - to the tune of some several thousands of pounds. We did so, because we could all afford to, but also because there's a strong feeling that we should help our parent.

But several of my friends noted that it was an unreasonable reversal of the parent-child dynamic, and that our parent should not even have contemplated asking us.

So you have my sympathy, and I hope you can see the excellent advice in this thread.

Thank you flock (and others). I've took alot of good from the thread, I appreciate all the advice and have noted everything.

No need to apologise, I agree it was a huge drip feed.

When I started the thread I didn't want to go into all of the back story and slag her off. I wanted to keep it vague and gather opinions based on the issue at hand but I then realised that the rest of it is very relevant if I wanted the correct advice.

You can sign them up to the online government scheme for vulnerable people - being run by local authority councils.

Hello OP,

Very difficult for you to provide this level of support & responsiveness.

Whether your relative has a learning difficulty or disability, their functioning & capacity will be impacted by the current climate & restrictions; please contact your local adult social care services to see if they are known to them & whether they have eligible needs? They may be able to offer direct support, reassess need(s) or ey will be able to signpost you to other services your relative can contact for ongoing help/support during the outbreak.

Take care x

So sorry OP, just caught rest of thread, what a complex situation

Adult social care won't help (I have tried) but I'll definitely look into the government scheme for vulnerable people

You can sign them up to the online government scheme for vulnerable people - being run by local authority councils

There are some food parcels available yes but otherwise it's just putting people in touch with volunteers who will collect pre paid food and prescriptions. They can't help her budget her money.

Maybe in her head you will be paying for electric etc, it's just conveniently forgotten that she's got wine and fags in the cupboard. I don't think people have read this properly.
Set some rules, let her know and look after yourself.