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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To tell vulnerable relative they'll just have to make do

266 replies

Shrubbish · 09/04/2020 16:00

A member of my family has learning difficulties, no formal diagnosis but struggles with basic reading/writing and social skills. They have capacity but function mentally much younger than they are. They are elderly.

They cannot and do not budget their money. This makes things difficult because they do have capacity so are expected to be responsible, but responsible they are not.

They called me this morning (2nd week in a row) and said they are running low on food and can I help. They don't bank, they use the post office so I couldn't simply transfer the money over.

Faced with the possibility of them going without until they get paid on Tuesday, I very reluctantly agreed to give them another £20.

I had to visit three different cash points as two were out of service, I then met them in a desolate car park (maintaining the 2m distance) and put the money on the floor. I was wearing gloves, not to say I think that makes things any better.

The same happened last week, they needed £10 which was supposed to be for bread, milk, cereal etc. I suspect they spent it on cigarettes.

I can't and won't do this again, but what do I say when they call me and say they're without food/electric?

I'm anxious and angry because I've put myself and others at risk, but felt obligated as they are telling me they would be without food. I have children at home and a DH who is currently taking unpaid leave, so all of our efforts to stay safe seem pointless if I continue to disregard the rules.

Feel free to give me a hard time, I encourage it. I'm furious with myself and would expect nothing less.

WIBU to say that's it, no more, either budget or go without.

OP posts:
TorkTorkBam · 14/04/2020 14:44

Her having mysterious undiagnosed "learning disabilities" is a way of making excuses for her behaviour.

She is a vile person.

Cut her out.

My mum is vile. She is not as bad as yours and still I largely cut her off many years ago. My life improved dramatically when I did.

People try to diagnose her and say she's "not quite right". This is usually said to me when someone wants to guilt me into taking responsibility for her. Nope. Nope. Nope.

You NEED to cut her out of your life like she cut you out of hers all those years ago.

HER SURVIVAL DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOUR CONTACT WITH HER. You can cut her off completely, zero contact, be healthier, be happier, and within a couple of weeks she will be no worse off than she was. If you do this then you must tell other family members you do not even want to hear a word about her and her life from them.

She is risking your life as entertainment or just because she does not give any fucks. Same as she has done all your life. You can remove her from your life. You really can. Especially now when your life is literally at risk

Shrubbish · 14/04/2020 15:02

She's played the two of you off against one another previously. Good that you are becoming more aware of it.

Absolutely she has. There have been times where she has convinced me that my aunt is being unreasonable and "demanding" money back, when really she was just expecting mum to stick to the agreement and stay true to her promise of repaying her back come pay day.

HER SURVIVAL DOES NOT DEPEND ON YOUR CONTACT WITH HER

I needed to hear this, and it is absolutely a fact.

There have been many times I've vowed to cut contact but always softned soon after. I am the definition of a push over and need to work on that.

The fact she called back and said I'm sorry about the money and that, but I'm just letting you know that someone in my building has coronavirus" says alot.

OP posts:
YogaFaker · 14/04/2020 15:41

Awww Shrubbish you are going through it, aren't you? Strength and big nonMN hugs to you. Good luck - it's really hard, isn't it, setting up boundaries to protect yourself against one of the main people in the world you should be able to be open with. Really tough.

Good luck Flowers

forrestgreen · 14/04/2020 16:12

I knew she'd ring, presumed she'd say she has a cough. That's because you challenged her behaviour.
I see less ld and more manipulation with everything you say.

I def think it all needs sessions with your counsellor for you to feel more independent

Cocobean30 · 14/04/2020 17:26

Oh bless you OP, against all odds you are a lovel6 and kind person. You should be proud of yourself. I hope you find the strength to put yourself first

Gingerkittykat · 14/04/2020 19:22

Can your husband help you to put some boundaries in place?

Having grown up with an abusive parent I understand all too well how difficult it is to keep yourself emotionally safe and the drive to talk to them even when your head tells you no.

Devora13 · 15/04/2020 01:00

63 is not elderly.
Yes, they may not have a diagnosis, and may have a learning difficulty.

That doesn't mean they are incapable of taking you for a ride. I can say that from first hand experience. As others have said, foodbox, no cash.
I had this situation once, and the person definitely showed their true colours. Wouldn't give cash, ordered them a basic shop which they were then too busy to collect. Reading between the lines of what they said after, obvious they didn't want the money for essentials.

MyShinyWhiteTeeth · 15/04/2020 02:37

I was in a similar situation.

I learnt to say 'Oh dear, how are you going to sort that out' instead of offering and being involved in solutions.

notangelinajolie · 15/04/2020 02:51

I was with you all the way in this OP until you said elderly 63 Confused
63 is not elderly.

Agree they are vunerable and you should probably still be helping and you need to contact their social worker.

UniversalAunt · 15/04/2020 03:32

Yup @monkeymonkey2010 has it right.

Good that you’ve conferred with your aunt & can now cut through your mother playing you two off against each other.

Stand firm, stand fast.
Put yourself first.
It may seem bit odd at first (like crossing your arms the other way round) but you’ll soon relax & enjoy it.

Qgardens · 15/04/2020 07:46

I learnt to say 'Oh dear, how are you going to sort that out' instead of offering and being involved in solutions.

Good advice.

You have done amazingly well to have survived, and succeeded in life, against all the odds because of your dysfunctional childhood. You should be so proud of yourself.

Useryokyesno · 15/04/2020 07:58

You're not breaking the rules or law. You are allowed to leave the home to go to care for a vulnerable person. Which is what this is.. Don't do it if you're not happy doing it but don't act like you're breaking the law for them.

TorkTorkBam · 15/04/2020 11:42

A few days ago you wrote this:
OP can your husband drop money/food off to your mum, instead of you having to do it? yes I'm sure he would do that. Truth be told I haven't even broached the possibility of him doing it before. I'm embarrassed and didn't want to make it 'his' problem iykwim

I cannot speak highly enough of how much my DH helped me with my mother. He saw the insanity. He was not in the FOG. He found it easy peasy to say no to her, enforce the no, then sleep easy with barely another thought about it. For a while, many years ago, we agreed that he would handle all conatct with her. He would read her crazy letters (I did not) and summarise like this "Nothing that matters to you. Usual ranting." He would answer the phone or create a reason for me to have to hang up. He would point out her playing me and, crucially, I would listen and not hand wring so much. It wasn't a burden to him. From a place outside of the FOG it is remarkably easy to see what to do, do it and be happy. The space from her was a major factor for me emerging from the FOG and staying out of it.

Talk to DH. While he is out of work, this support of you might be excellent for his own mental health, not a burden at all.

strongteawith2sugars · 18/04/2020 11:46

Wow OP. Sorry to read everything you have been through and the FOG is real. I was on a child protection order too and it really never ends (if the parent is still alive). Keep strong and don’t lend any money. I have the same situation with another relative (they’re all fucked in my family) and I only drop food to the door step. I don’t engage in money.

Look after yourself and your immune system. You sound high risk so take extra care x

bogbabe · 18/04/2020 18:37

**She then told me she's not giving me it back because "you owe me money remember"

But that's not what we agreed when I lent you the money... Is it? Why did you not tell me when this when you were asking for it? What has changed?

Grrr - people like this really irritate me. Poor you, and well done

fluffiphlox · 18/04/2020 18:47

In what world is 63 elderly? I’m on my way to that and I still work in a fairly demanding job. Tell them to bollocks.

Shrubbish · 18/04/2020 21:56

Thank you for all of the replies, once again I'm sorry for offending anybody by referring to 63 as elderly. I explained why I did that but I appreciate not everybody has time to RTFT.

Well to update the situation she's gone AWOL since being paid and has turned her phone off. My aunt managed to speak to her yesterday and was able to relay to me that she's ok but she's binge drinking so I won't hear from her until she's ran out of money and sobered up.

She doesn't answer the phone to me when she's drinking as she knows it upsets me and she's promised for the 100th time she won't be doing it. Then when I can't get hold of her I worry more.

This is a regular occurrence unfortunately. We had it under control somewhat when I had her post office card but since lockdown she's had to take it back and this is what happens.

I used to rush down to her home every time this happened but I've exhausted the ability to do that. DH is in bed unwell (it's not covid related) and I'm absolutely not dragging the children down there to see her drunk and belligerent. I shouldn't be going out at all.

This is another layer of stress and frustration I have to put up with unfortunately and it does frighten me that she's continuing to do this whilst resources are so stretched. If she falls over (again) she's not going to be priority for paramedics given the current circumstances.

I have worries that she's going to be found dead as a result of her own bloody doing and I don't see what I can do to help that I haven't already tried endlessly.

I've tried everything.

AA. GP. Support groups. Alcohol services. Pleading, crying, giving ultimatums. I've pestered adult services who aren't interested, I've tried to signpost her to MH services. Nothing.

She will not comply and because she does have capacity there is nothing that can be done.

I'm sat here bracing myself for the knock on the door to let me know she has been found dead. It sounds dramatic but she's had countless hospital admissions due to falling over drunk and head injuries, it seems inevitable.

I absolutely could not have her in with me for several reasons. It's extremely hard.

@strongteawith2sugars thank you strong and I'm so sorry you too had a shitty start to life. It's always great when people manage to break the cycle x

OP posts:
FuzzyPuffling · 18/04/2020 22:24

Shrubbish, I have read the full thread and I think you are amazing. You are in an impossible position and yet you are still making measured and thoughtful decisions. Please put yourself first and treat yourself kindly. And feel no guilt. You are amazing.

StrictlyAFemaleFemale · 18/04/2020 22:39

You sound like one of those genuinely lovely people Shrubbish. Please know that you are not responsible for your mother, and that you deserve better Flowers

Shrubbish · 18/04/2020 22:43

Aw thank you, you lot are very kind. This isn't the reception I expected when I posted initially. I was worried I would be torn to shreds but it's actually been very therapeutic talking to people who understand and having people be so kind

OP posts:
forrestgreen · 18/04/2020 23:50

You can't help someone who isn't in the right place to be helped. Nothing you do will change her.
Al anon has been recommended on here before, but it's for you to gain understanding

YouTheCat · 19/04/2020 00:07

Shrubbish, you are amazing. Don't give your mother any more money.

Look how your life was - no school from year 6/7, no advantages, and you've built a lovely life for yourself through sheer determination. You are stronger than most people.

justilou1 · 19/04/2020 00:17

Hi @Shrubbish... another who ran around after an abusive mother. Even on her deathbed she was horrible to me. (Despite me leaving my little kids with my DH on the other side of the planet to fly to nurse her through the final stage of her illness, etc.... ) she was cruel and selfish. She chose to die in a way that exhausted me financially and physically, and she treated me like shit. I can say that it wasn’t worth it. It caused more psychological trauma than any guilt had I not gone, and I don’t think it made her any happier. She will not change or see reason. She has a system of behaviours that have worked very well for her to get what she wants for 63 years. Don’t be surprised if you end up getting calls from hospitals or police, etc... after you go non-contact. You will have to remain strong. She will probably also manipulate family members to try and reel you back in. (The aunt may not be able to resist the guilt tripping.) Until hospitals and police know that you can’t and won’t take over and keep rescuing her, adult social services won’t get involved. You must let her dig her own grave for a while.

As for you, you undoubtedly have CPTSD from your upbringing and need specialist treatment for this. I am unpicking my childhood now, and it is traumatic and painful, but worth it.

justilou1 · 19/04/2020 00:21

BTW, the call about someone in the building with the virus is her reeling you in. Next thing she’s going to mysteriously develop symptoms and “need” you. It will involve money. She is setting the scene for her next con. You are a very soft target. You should have hung up immediately.

Butterymuffin · 19/04/2020 00:33

You must not sacrifice yourself to rush after your mother. Your children and husband depend on you and they have to be the priorities - as well as you being precious and valuable yourself. You can't change your mother.

On a practical point I read that A&E admissions are actually down 40% at the moment. So many people are trying not to put the NHS under further strain. So if your mum has done what you fear, they will be able to look after her. You have to let that take its course.