To tell vulnerable relative they'll just have to make do

[Shrubbish]

A member of my family has learning difficulties, no formal diagnosis but struggles with basic reading/writing and social skills. They have capacity but function mentally much younger than they are. They are elderly.

They cannot and do not budget their money. This makes things difficult because they do have capacity so are expected to be responsible, but responsible they are not.

They called me this morning (2nd week in a row) and said they are running low on food and can I help. They don't bank, they use the post office so I couldn't simply transfer the money over.

Faced with the possibility of them going without until they get paid on Tuesday, I very reluctantly agreed to give them another £20.

I had to visit three different cash points as two were out of service, I then met them in a desolate car park (maintaining the 2m distance) and put the money on the floor. I was wearing gloves, not to say I think that makes things any better.

The same happened last week, they needed £10 which was supposed to be for bread, milk, cereal etc. I suspect they spent it on cigarettes.

I can't and won't do this again, but what do I say when they call me and say they're without food/electric?

I'm anxious and angry because I've put myself and others at risk, but felt obligated as they are telling me they would be without food. I have children at home and a DH who is currently taking unpaid leave, so all of our efforts to stay safe seem pointless if I continue to disregard the rules.

Feel free to give me a hard time, I encourage it. I'm furious with myself and would expect nothing less.

WIBU to say that's it, no more, either budget or go without.

If your Mum doesn't want you to get a food shop and just wants money, then it seems likely she is spending your cash on fags and booze. So, she won't starve if you say to no to all further demands for cash. She will just have to wait until her next payday, just like millions of other people do. In any case no-one will starve if they if they have to reduce their food intake for a few days. I think you will have to toughen up Op. Your health has to come first and you sound vulnerable, so just say No.

Perhaps they've never learnt to budget because whenever they blow their money, other people just give them more? Maybe giving them advice might help; the day they get their money, make a shopping list to do them the week and then they'll not be left without essentials. Then, the spare money they have left over can be spent on treats ie cigarettes or whatever the like. Next time they ask for money, I'd give them a big bag of pasta, a few pasta sauces, pint of milk and a box of cereal. With the above advice and also inform them that you are short of money yourself so can't help out any longer.

Is it really a budgeting problem or is it that she knows you will always bail her out if she needs it so she doesn't try to budget?

I was about to post something similar, strawberry.

I don't think she is unable to budget - I think she knows fine well what she is doing, and chooses to spend her money on fags, knowing that her DD will buy her food if necessary and even more important - give her more money to spend of cigarettes.

This is deliberate and manipulative.

As bad as she is with budgeting, she is somebody who always makes sure her bills are paid first so that is one positive

Also, this speaks volumes. If she can make sure bills are paid, why can't she make sure that she always a shelf of non perishables in the cupboard to see her through hard times. I'm sorry, but she's taking advantage. I also have a mother who takes advantage of us, albeit not in a financial way.

You’re enabling her OP.

Stop enabling whilst she’s still still non-elderly. You’re creating a rod for your own back.

Tell her you won't give her anymore cash. If she rings saying she has no food, drop off a bag of basics on her doorstep so that she won't starve ( get them with your usual shop).

Adult social care aren't interested at all unfortunately.

I have been trying to help them budget for years, prior to lockdown we had an arrangement where their post office card would be kept at my home and they would come and withdraw when they needed things so I could help them make their money stretch as long as possible.

We can't do that now because we're not supposed to be mixing households.

They took their card back pre-lockdown and now this is the result.

Loads of people's informal support structures are breaking down because of this pandemic. Social care has been cut to the bone over the past decade and there are a helluva lot of people who don't meet the ever tighter threshold for social care but who nevertheless are unable to manage without these sorts of ad hoc arrangements.

Please refer your relative again to adult social care. Make it clear that they are not managing to get food for themself and you are currently unable to provide the necessary support.

Also get them on your local authority's list of vulnerable people in need of support.

I would avoid FB or whatsapp groups unless it's a last resort. Lots of well-meaning and enthusiastic volunteers but not much in the way of safeguarding. Your relative will be especially vulnerable to exploitation and abuse because of their LD.

Also check your local authority's emergency support scheme, your relative might be able to get a food delivery and fuel top-up credit. This is general help, separate to anything extra they have put in place because of coronavirus.

What were they doing before this happened? - before lockdown began she would keep her post office card at my house and would come and pick up amounts needed for food/shopping/bills. This was an agreement we made because she kept wasting her money and having to borrow more. This worked ok for the most part but obviously can't continue in the current circumstances so she had to take her card back.

OP is she vulnerable? That word gets bandied around a lot on MN - I would say she is yes, she is socially very childlike. I have never been aware of a formal diagnosis, but do know that when she was a child she went to what she calls a "special school". I don't have power of attorney because despite being "slow" she does have capacity, so I don't have power of attorney or access to her medical file so I don't know what is on record about her. I've asked her remaining sibling what the problem is, she was the one who told me that mum is "just slow" which I appreciate is a bit vague.

If you feel you need to continue ensuring they have food, Could you give them one of those voucher cards for their local supermarkets - this is a possibility I'll look into

When this next happens, send a message saying something like 'ok I'll sort it' and then drop off some useful but boring food on her doorstep - loaf and baked beans - also something I could do

Is it really a budgeting problem or is it that she knows you will always bail her out if she needs it so she doesn't try to budget? - I strongly suspect the latter

You’re enabling her OP - yes I agree, I have been doing. I need to do some work on myself because I'm very much stuck in the FOG where she is concerned. Not so much 'fear' but definitely obligation and guilt

Someone asked about patches earlier and I was wondering too. Has she ever tried them - no she hasn't, I've suggested she cut down or quit if she's unable to afford the amount she smokes and she won't hear of it. She also refuses to smoke rolling tobacco. She is very spoilt in that regard.

I’m assuming she’s in receipt of benefits but it is possible to ask for benefits to be paid more frequently when someone struggles with budgeting due to a learning disability - she is in receipt of employment support allowance and she gets this fortnightly. I'm not aware if that can be split into more frequent payments but I will look into it.

The natural parent to child relationship between you pivoted long ago & you have become parent to her child & she is the child who just refuses to grow up. Loads of fear, obligation & guilt swilling around.
Have I got some of this right - everything in your post is absolutely spot on. You have hit the nail on the head.

I did try to get a social care assessment but they weren't interested. I don't think she is considered vulnerable enough

She absolutely can be manipulative and deceitful and I've realised that alot in recent years. She's very selfish at times.

I don't think she is unable to budget - I think she knows fine well what she is doing, and chooses to spend her money on fags, knowing that her DD will buy her food if necessary and even more important - give her more money to spend of cigarettes.* - yes I do believe that is case now

Perhaps they've never learnt to budget because whenever they blow their money, other people just give them more? Maybe giving them advice might help - I've tried giving advice many, many times. I now think as harsh as it is, she needs to be able to feel the consequences of her irresponsibility. The only thing that is going to prompt her to budget properly is to feel the consequences of not doing so. Unfortunately even if I don't lend again, there is another family member who always will.

If I were to note everything I went through as a child under her care then I have no doubt everybody would be telling me not to bother at all, I had a miserable upbringing and it's only after having therapy for something else that I've started to look back and see it for what it was.

I don't actually owe her anything, quite the opposite, so I don't know why I feel so responsible for her. It's very deep rooted.

Wow it’s a cruel world when you have a learning disability and your family treat you like this in such frightening times.

She is not capable of the executive planning to budget her money and yet you accuse her of scamming you? It’s deep rooted? Family responsibility and a sense of compassion should be surely?

@LuxLuxLux84 would you like to read the rest of the thread or do you want me to summarise my subsequent posts after my OP?

I’m sorry I didn’t see she mistreated you as a child.

OP can your husband drop money/food off to your mum, instead of you having to do it? As you are vulnerable due to health issues, it would make sense for your husband to take on these tasks on your behalf.

Instead of meeting your relative in a car park halfway between you, could you put the money through your relative's letterbox? You could leave food on their doorstep and then call to let them know it is there.

I’m sorry I didn’t see she mistreated you as a child. - that's ok it was quite the drip feed really. I wanted to keep my OP as vague as possible but ended up spilling the lot, it would be disingenuous if I didn't include the background info really.

OP can your husband drop money/food off to your mum, instead of you having to do it? - yes I'm sure he would do that. Truth be told I haven't even broached the possibility of him doing it before. I'm embarrassed and didn't want to make it 'his' problem iykwim

Good post, UniversalAunt. Definitely look at support for yourself, OP.

Have you contacted adult social care since the lockdown? There are new rules in place which allow local authorities, where necessary, to just provide for people's immediate needs and worry about full needs assessments later. The situation will be handled differently in different areas but it's well worth making sure she, and you, are on the radar.

Realistically she's not going to just stop smoking and it's a waste of everyone's energy trying to make that happen. If she doesn't have fags then she won't stay at home, she will keep going out until she can get some. Possibly she will cadge off other smokers in the street, possibly she will pick up dog ends. Someone upthread said she won't die from lack of fags but it's entirely possible.

I don't think now is a good time for anyone vulnerable to be feeling the consequences of their irresponsibility. This is both a viral pandemic and a mental health pandemic. Even people with everything going for them are having difficulty making rational and responsible decisions.

You don't owe her anything OP and your childhood sounds terrible. You shouldn't have to be dealing with any of this. For now though we all just need to do what we can to ensure everybody has their basic needs met and is supported to stay at home, even complete arseholes. We need to do this out of enlightened self-interest if nothing else. It's completely understandable if you don't feel able to carry on supporting her directly but it would be good to get her 'known' to as many reputable agencies as you can.

If she doesn't have fags then she won't stay at home, she will keep going out until she can get some. Possibly she will cadge off other smokers in the street - This is exactly what she would do

I have tried getting her support from adult social care since lockdown started yes, I was told she doesn't "meet the requirements" so I'm taking that as them saying she isn't "vulnerable" enough, based on what I tell them.

It is incredibly frustrating because clearly something is wrong, I'm just not able to tell people what. I feel as though i should know all of this, given that it is my mum, but I've never been more aware of how secretive my family can be, since my dear brother came to light in recent years.

It is almost certainly not autism, that much I can say. It is a learning disability of some sort, she is extremely immature and struggles massively with anything like forms / spelling. She also struggles to explain things thoroughly.

Just being "slow" (my relatives words not mine) doesn't register as a good enough explanation imo

Why haven't you contacted their social worker and informed them that this person is no longer able to manage at home under the current circumstances?
They then have some time to put new and temporary measures in place. It's much harder to do this on weekends and bank holidays and people end up getting admitted to hospital until a social worker can arrange a safe temporary solution.

She doesn't have a social worker, the only social services involvement there was, was for me when I was a child under her care

saving I cannot see any indication of need for a hospital admission? It doesn't sound like there is anything that would indicate a need for detention as it doesn't sound like the Ops mother would agree to an admission? Does she lack capacity OP?