To tell vulnerable relative they'll just have to make do

[Shrubbish]

A member of my family has learning difficulties, no formal diagnosis but struggles with basic reading/writing and social skills. They have capacity but function mentally much younger than they are. They are elderly.

They cannot and do not budget their money. This makes things difficult because they do have capacity so are expected to be responsible, but responsible they are not.

They called me this morning (2nd week in a row) and said they are running low on food and can I help. They don't bank, they use the post office so I couldn't simply transfer the money over.

Faced with the possibility of them going without until they get paid on Tuesday, I very reluctantly agreed to give them another £20.

I had to visit three different cash points as two were out of service, I then met them in a desolate car park (maintaining the 2m distance) and put the money on the floor. I was wearing gloves, not to say I think that makes things any better.

The same happened last week, they needed £10 which was supposed to be for bread, milk, cereal etc. I suspect they spent it on cigarettes.

I can't and won't do this again, but what do I say when they call me and say they're without food/electric?

I'm anxious and angry because I've put myself and others at risk, but felt obligated as they are telling me they would be without food. I have children at home and a DH who is currently taking unpaid leave, so all of our efforts to stay safe seem pointless if I continue to disregard the rules.

Feel free to give me a hard time, I encourage it. I'm furious with myself and would expect nothing less.

WIBU to say that's it, no more, either budget or go without.

I wouldn't give cash. I would give them a bag of bread, milk and eggs or something similar, but I would not hand over money for cigarettes.

I had sepsis late last year and was in hospital for quite a while, my recovery has been slow because my immune system was wiped out and I'm susceptible to pretty much everything. I've been told I'm at increased risk of complications from covid, if I did get it.

My mum is very fit and healthy, more so than me, so I guess I'm just frustrated. Sorry if I've come across as a moaning martyr. That isn't my usual mode.

I'm going to speak with her and make it clear that this was the last time and she needs to write me a shopping list if she needs help with food.

Sounds like she just wants you pay for her shopping OP.

My mum is elderly and vulnerable and I shop for her, give her the receipt and she gives me cash. In coronations she has given me her debit card. She has trouble with online banking so we go through her summary regularly so she knows what’s being spent.

You dont sound heartless to me at all, if you were you wouldnt be putting yourself out for them.
But as lots of PP have said - one shop a week, outside their house, they can take it or leave it. If they are able to live alone and are deemed as mentally able to make their own financial decisions, then they are mentally able to understand their options.

My friend struggles with budgeting too. She would spend everything in the first week so she got into debt. Her brother helped by paying them off and now is named on her accounts and transfers everything out of her account each month to a bill account which she doesn’t have a card for. He transfers money each week into an account she has access to so she can only spend what she can afford. Maybe this would work?

*corona times

I feel your pain OP. You’re in a difficult situation and it’s hard to say no to a loved one when you’re not sure if they are suffering hardship. Even a child could work out that she’s getting free money. She won’t want to stop unless you stand firm and offer only food.

Does her benefit money go in monthly now and that’s the problem that she spends it all too quickly because she is better with weekly money?

If so, would it be possible for her to have her money paid into one bank account (that perhaps someone else keeps the card safe for) and standing order set up to pay a weekly sum from there into her day to day account which she can then access with her own card?

Just a thought. Could possibly be done online if you arrange for the money coming from her benefits to be paid into an online bank and set up a standing order from there to pay to her post office account every Monday, which is the account she currently has the card for.

They’re scamming you, but not in the way “normal” people would scam you. They may not understand money is limited for everyone and if they have low IQs this may be a difficult thing for them to understand. They’re obviously bored and addicted to nicotine so I guess the money is going on fags.These people are a bad mix of desperate and thoughtless.

Try telling them you’ll do a sensible shop with limited ciggies or they need to find someone else to help them. Or try getting social services involved. It’s a horrible, difficult situation you’re stuck in, good luck.

Call the local council. I had a call today (I'm in a shielded group) and while we're thankfully fine, I asked for the number to signpost for support for people just like your relative. They said they would be delighted for people to share it as they can't help people they don't know about.

These are very strange times, and one sign of that is that there is suddenly help available from the state for groups who have previously been left to twist in the breeze. Contact the council and ask about food parcels etc for this person, as you should be prioritising your own health, if it's that precarious. You can't support her if you die of Covid, can you. This is a surreal time, but it's also a blip. It will pass. So secure your own oxygen supply first, as they say on planes.

You need to protect your own health. She won't die for lack of cigarettes. She can accept your shopping for her with your own food, because when someone does you a favour, you don't get to dictate a system that increases their risk and hassle just to suit your addiction. Frankly, your best interests, needs, and even safety are not factoring in at all for her, so stop pandering. Ensure she eats, absolutely. But that doesn't have to be on terms so harmful, potentially, to you.

If this is one of your parents, then sounds like you had caring responsibilities from a very young age. She's lucky she had a child like you. Many would have severed ties a while ago, if this was lifelong. I find this hard to read, because I have a disabled child and the idea that they should have to care for me, rather than the other way around, is just so wrong. I chose to have a child and they give me enormous joy and pride. Disability doesn't alter that. But you don't choose to care for a parent from a young age, and you shouldn't ever have to, if the disability was from the start. I do appreciate how hard that is on the disabled adult, but the child should always come first and there needs to be a decent capacity to parent - not an expectation that the child will parent instead.

Ignore those posturing about how marvellous they would be in your shoes. It's like threads on fostering and adoption - it's always those with personal experience who are realistic, and the comfortably ignorant who judge and hector.

for you.

"Sorry if I've come across as a moaning martyr."
You honestly haven't. There just seem to be a lot of posters lately who have a stick up their arse.

Your relative has been getting you to dance to their tune for some time. The lockdown has just made it difficult for you to keep doing it, and your health has frankly made it impossible. You should NOT be risking yourself here, you are at least as vulnerable as your other local relative.

I would refuse to give them cash but would offer grocery basics (dropped off to their door by your husband, who I presume does not have compromised health). If they say no, then tough shit - they're not going hungry.

"I can't and won't do this again, but what do I say when they call me and say they're without food/electric?"
You say "No". You say 'I'll get DH to drop a loaf and some eggs to your door". You say "Again?" But mainly - you say "No".

Things would be alot simpler if she had a bank account but she's very stuck in her ways and wants to stay with the post office

As bad as she is with budgeting, she is somebody who always makes sure her bills are paid first so that is one positive.

The problem lays with what is left after bills (ie food budget for two weeks) and she just ploughs through it (cigarettes/wine) because she knows she can ask me or another relative for help and we won't see her go hungry.

That is part of the problem, she feels able to waste her own money as there is never a consequence. She is well aware that she has a buffer in us because she's never been left to understand the consequences of not budgeting and then having to go without.

She'll think nothing of splashing £20 on cigarettes, if it is her last £20.

They're taking advantage. Tell them you'll bring some essential food and leave it on their drive if they're claiming they're desperate. You shouldn't be going out and risking your and others health, and spending your money, because someone wants fags.

Shrubbish I just read the update. Have you registered on the government website, using your NHS number (they cross refer to ensure no scammers are hijacking)? If you do, then you get access to supermarket delivery slots. You need to use them for yourself, never mind anyone else. You can then deliver to her doorstep - in car, drop, back - with minimal risk.

Again, if you die, who will care for her in future?

You're her child, so you find it hard to stand up to her, even as you care. A lifetime's responsibility will do that. But you have to protect your own health here. And you can't do that while meeting her (wholly unreasonable) demands.

Like you said, she doesn't need to budget because she can just ask you for your money when shes blown her own.

"I"m sorry, I've offered to do shopping for you, but you have declined. I cannot give you any more cash.

I am still happy to do food shopping for you but that's it."

I can see I'm coming across as quite heartless, I promise that isn't the case. I help them alot, I'm just exhausted and anxious.

You are not coming across as heartless at all - just exasperated, tired and anxious - and I'm not surprised. This relative is taking up a lot of your energy AND your cash - because you will never get back from her anything that you "lend".

As others have suggested - offer basic foodstuffs and nothing else. If this person is savvy enough to "get her own bits and bobs" then she is savvy enough to realise that she will have to manage on what cash she has - and if she chooses to buy cigarettes, well, that is her choice. She is living independently, so is presumably capable to a good degree. To be frank - I'd expect a child of ten to be able to realise that you can have X or you can have Z, but if you spend all of your money on X, then you can't expectsompone to buy For you (and you certainly can't expect someone to hand over cash, that you pretend to buy Z with, but which you actually spend on X).

She's taking advantage of your kindness because she knows you worry about her. If necessary, tell her that you are too unwell to leave the house at present - have a stomach bug o a migraine or something. Don't answer he phone to her if she rings frequently (but maybe answer once/day to ensure she is ok). Point out to her that if you become vERY ill, there is no-one at all who will be able t help her.

It's a very bad situation for you to be in, but she will run you ragged out of sheer selfishness if she gets the chance. Perhaps she can't appreciate how badly she is behaving, but she is just assuming that you will bail her out all the time. She has to learn that you can't.

She's taking advantage of you. Stop giving her money. A few days without food or electricity will do more to focus her mind than any words of encouragement or constructive criticism would do.

Have you checked out with your local council if there's a service that can support her with her cash? It sounds like she's a lot to deal with at the best of times.

Can you make a list with her, including her cigarettes, to fit into her budget and make sure she's got her essentials? It might help her to understand the budgeting issue if you price it up with her and ask her where she expects the extra to come from. Once you've got the list, you can just buy it weekly.

Don't put anymore cash in her hand. At all. And make it clear to her that that's the new rule.

If this is one of your parents, then sounds like you had caring responsibilities from a very young age

Yes this was the case. I was recognised as being a "young carer" by social services who were involved by way of neglect on her part (I don't think it was intentional, she was basically a childlike person with a child)

She then (encouraged by other family) left me on my own at 17 and moved 250 miles away.

Muggings here, missing my mum, followed her down to where she lives (and where I now live) and here we are.

It sounds, rather sadly, as if she's very adept at taking advantage. Learning disabilities don't stop that. Think how good children can be at it, with parents who don't set clear boundaries.

If the other relatives who pander to her are your siblings, then I suggest you speak with them and agree a united front. And if you don't, state that while this pandemic is underway, they will have to be the ones breaking social distancing, because you should, from the sounds, be full-on shielding.

Shrubbish, you're doing your best and your mum is lucky to have you looking out for her. But you really have to put your health first, because you've been told you're at increased risk. Can you get the Post Office card back from her, and arrange food deliveries?

And please don't take any notice of silly insults. You are stressed, not playing the martyr.

Just to warn that, if someone is not already receiving help from statutory services, they are very unlikely to be taken onto their books now.
My County Council, which has responsibility for the 'shielded' group, is contacting people in that group to understand whether they have pre-existing support (either formal support or informally through family/friends). It is then only providing services to those who have no such support.
There will be a lot of people like your relative - high needs but not high enough to get on the right list - who will be left to try to scramble solutions together, with all the risk that entails.
There are also people who are reluctant to declare their vulnerability because they think that means they will then be put on a list of people who will not receive medical care if they get sick.
It's not going to be pretty.

Another one here saying to send her a morrisons box. Cigarettes are not a priority but you cant risk her going without food.

@DorothyParker111 perhaps that varies by area? The person who called me today was clear that I was entitled to help, and told me to get other people also entitled registered on the site, and to disseminate their own advice line number. He said that they couldn't help people not registered with food parcels etc, but there are local groups now all over the county who are providing such help.

OP, you have the right to look after yourself.

It was her job to look after you. She didn't. She still isn't, even though as you say she is stronger and healthier than you are.

She was a bad mother, and that's not down to her learning difficulties because lots of people with those are loving and selfless, even if they struggle on the more complex aspects. She's been uniformly selfish, and I'm sad to say this but that won't change. She will never be the mother you deserved. I'm so very sorry for that. You, like all children, deserved so much better. But it's okay to stop putting her needs ahead of your own. In fact it's not okay to keep doing it. When has she ever done so for you? Why isn't she remotely worried about her frail daughter?

The sad fact is that you, and I, will be low down the list for care if it starts to be rationed, and we do get very ill. Not because of any list; because of our medical history. So shield. It's essential.

@MiaowMix Nothing in her post makes her seem like she cares nothing about the relative. If she didn't care about the releative then she wouldn't have given them money twice now. If the relative does not want to accept the help OP is willing to give (once a week shop) then they are on their own. Demanding money instead of shopping is not on