To think CV19 pandemic will highlight just how shit so many men are?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

We are obviously in very weird times where there's a general understating that everyone has to step out their comfort zone, adjust things etc be it working from home whilst looking after kids, doing a supermarket shop alone and once in a blue moon and staying indoors all day. However reading, here and on social media in the last few weeks (and RL accounts from friends) that men are unwilling to change the smallest things, including

• Women having to bend over backwards to sort getting to the supermarket because her DH won't do it
• no matter who is the higher earner, women doing both WFH and childcare duties while men get their full working days to themselves
• women being the ones sorting crafts, books, writing etc for home schooling whilst men barely know what school year their child is in.

It does seem that a lot of blokes were happy to have kids and have the fun moments - playing on an evening, holidays etc - but now have the daunting task of doing the hard stuff and can't cope for the life of them.

I suspect that a lot of women put up with this pre-pandemic because it's how they'd always been and she tolerated it because that's what women have been socialises to do. But this uselessness will be a nail in the coffin for many couples. Men have probably got away with a lot because they're Very Busy with work so women got on with things, but working from home probably exposes how Busy men actually are.

AIBU to think that many women will be exposed to just how utterly shit their OHs are?

Disclaimer: sorry not sorry on pointing out it's only men. Never once seen a post about a woman not stepping up to be a mother. Yes NAMALT and I'm sure your Nigel is lovely, but the point is I think a lot of other 'Nigels' will be shown to be nothing of the sort.

Also, among my friends, some of whom are brilliant, almost all have taken a step back at work for the kids. These women are doctors, lawyers, accountants and had good careers before children but they find it very difficult to work full time and do all the thinking and planning for a family, factor in child care and shift work is very difficult around children too. These factors probably explain why more men are in senior positions than women rather than men being more competent or ambitious in my experience.

I've seen a massive increase in men out cycling and jogging during normal child caring hours lately - coincidence?

My husband has improved these past weeks to be honest.

We earn about the same, but I do usually do 60:40 home stuff, as our working weeks are usually about 40:60 to him in terms of hours.

Now it's 50:50, because we're both wfh and his hours are a bit better. His cooking is vastly improving with practice!

He's far from perfect, but I do have more leisure time, income and less work than him, so I'm happy with our present balance.

Just going to leave this here

Having worked with many male consultants they aren't any better at putting their socks away at work, there are still lots of (mostly women) people running around facilitating them. And will very much throw their toys out the pram when things don't go their way.

To say I am constantly surprised by the shit they expect others to do would be an understatement, there's a few who if they could pay someone to wipe their arse would. They definitely need looking after, I genuinely think most women would be embarrassed to be so poor at everyday life.

I don't think throwing a statistic "more men are ED consultants" to show how great men are really does anything. There's a definite bias towards men in medicine, and men are more likely to find someone to facilitate their work than women. And probably more able to switch off their home life.

By the time men have children they have 30/35 years of others doing things for them.

My experience and those of my close friends/family don't match up to the descriptions in your OP. My husband is currently at the supermarket shopping for us and for some friends that are self isolating, and has taken over pretty much all of the cooking. This behaviour is not out of the norm for other families we know. This is a pointless man-bashing thread - OP of course you will read about shit partners on MN and social media as people don't tend to post if there is no issue with their partner pulling their weight.

Some people are arseholes, others aren’t.

My boyfriend has been doing two hour childcare stints with a fortyish minute break so I can work (it means I need to work fewer hours as I can get more done), he’s been doing the food shopping, pharmacy trips, taken my son to a hospital appointment, ironed (he had to buy an iron 😂) and done a bit of general cleaning e.g vacuuming most days. The poor sod got roped into making a fort from delivery boxes this morning 😂

The poor sod got roped into making a fort from delivery boxes this morning

To be honest, making the fort will probably be the highlight of his day. Forts are awesome.

YANBU OP! The outrage in these comments is amusing. It's painfully obvious that men are a shittier species than women (statistically speaking) I'm always perplexed as to why women fight against that fact? Internalized misogyny I assume

I agree with @ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings and @ChubbyPigeon
It's systemic disempowerment. I have friends this is happening to who don't even realize how much of the "wifework" and thinking for their OH they are doing on a daily basis, and who think they have supportive husbands because they'll do tasks eventually, and only when asked. Since we had a baby, I have started saying to my husband, "I am not doing your thinking for you" when he starts trying to weasel out of his share of basic household decision making. It also took me a couple of years to teach him to actually look at the kitchen and think about what needed doing rather than leaving the dishes indefinitely for the washing up fairy to do them waiting for me to ask him to wash the dishes.

I think it massively depends on your relationship with OH. We are both teachers - he is full time and I am part time and we have 3DC. We have always been a team - we do different things around the house. I am better at cooking from scratch, so I do most of that but there is nothing to stop him from throwing fish fingers and chips in the oven and boiling up some peas to go with them - and he regularly does simple lunches for the DCs. He does most of the washing, which I hate, though I put it all away after. We both do the cleaning. We share childcare - he helps with the school work especially with our oldest who can't cope with doing school work at home. We kind of team tag the DCs - when he needs time to work I deal with them. When I do, he does.
I know I am lucky, but it has always been like this. Being in lockdown hasn't changed things. I do sometimes get frustrated because he doesn't always see if I am carrying the mental load. But we talk and he gets it. I know that there will always be people - note lack of gender - who will do as little as possible to help their other half and their family. But there are good relationships out there too.

Chubby makes a great point -- there's an awful lot of wifework going on in the office too. A lot of men rely on their female assistants or colleagues to take care of all the boring details while they do all the brilliant stuff. So no wonder they do the same at home.

I think YANBU OP. No bitterness here, my own DH is great, but so many men aren't!

Absolutely vinoelle. I understand the point. Mine is that if they are competent at work then they can be competent home too. It’s about communication and setting expectations early.
You don’t wait until you have a newborn to discuss core values and family responsibilities - unless you’re half baked. It’s pretty daft to move in with someone before you’ve thrashed our how it’s going to work from both a practical and financial perspective.
It’s not about which sex is better or more competent. It’s about couples communicating and agreeing what will work for them.

Blows my mind that some people are still trying to pretend that domestic labour isn't a gendered issue

This. There was also always gonna be "some women are shit too" - quite honestly I haven't heard of any, even the breadwinner women are also home schooling from what I can see.

You don’t wait until you have a newborn to discuss core values and family responsibilities - unless you’re half baked

Yes but you're labouring under a misapprehension that people keep their word. My ex was very much for being a hands on dad before we had kids, pushed for it (despite the banal claims of a PP that men don't really want kids ) and made all the right noises about doing 50/50. Then baby came, it was harder than he realised and used the "well you are on maternity leave" line, so I did everything and it soon became our new normal - one that he refused to change, because when it came down to it her was selfish and a total misogynist who thought "women's work" was beneath him. I didn't marry a lazy sod but I did divorce one.

I don't think my situation was the least bit unique BTW, I think I was lucky enough to be able to get out of it

I hate these threads that slag off men like they are a subspecies.

Just because some of you stuck yourselves with utter arse holes don't tar us all with the same brush.

Dh is great and so are my boys.

Yay, a pity party with some martyrdom thrown in for good measure.

@randomchap I think his highlight was having to play horsey, complete with a foam sword as a whip 😂

This situation has highlighted for me that I 100% married the right person.

Kind, funny and supportive. Shares the load completely, kids, financial and house stuff. We make a really good team.

Dh is great and so are my boys

So this thread isn’t about you then 🙄

Although come back in however many years when your “boys” are fathers and see what sort of parent they make!

I have been surprised at how many of my mum friends are working at home with their DHs but they are doing all the childcare and homeschooling etc by themselves. Even in one house where they both do the same profession. Mum is tearing her hair out and her DH is just on calls and working all day because he seems to have decided his work trumps hers.

We're very lucky to have my DH. He's brilliant at domestic stuff and is doing the lion's share here at the moment as his work is quiet. I have put a suggested timetable up for DD and both of us can help her with any of all activities.

I can see I’ll be going mad at mine soon. I’m still on mat leave so his working from home has been protected. When I go back, he’ll have to pull is finger out a bit more and do childcare. He still seems to think he’ll be cracking on as normal while I’m doing the kid stuff and catching up in the morning and evenings. That just isn’t fair on me so won’t be happening.

We are both teachers - he is full time and I am part time and we have 3DC. We have always been a team - we do different things around the house

You're part time, though, and he isn't?
These threads often get flooded with posters saying how their dhs/DPs are amazing and the rest of us are bitter and either love martyrdom/ chose badly/ can't woman up and ask for help (or a pp on here even said we need to 'man up', which is itself pretty telling). And even then, pps like the one above reveal who is actually doing a lot of the home running.

But the stats are really clear, women on average do vastly more of the home work and child care than male partners, and the lockdown exacerbates it. My DH is seen as a hugely equal partner by our friends and especially his friends as he bangs on about it... But like almost all the other dads I know, he's not touched a home schooling plan or done proper cleaning without being asked, and he is working far closer to normal hours than I am, even though I'm the main earner. I'm sad I've ended up in this situation, and pissed off that it's so bloody common.

I think it highlights the general state of your relationship to be honest. Yes it sounds like a lot of people are in shit relationships. Personally I've been grateful for my husband, he earns double my salary but we have both been working from home, he does half a day while I have the kids and I do half a day while he has the kids. I'm a bit busier at work at the moment so I'm doing more hours which he is supportive of. We are sharing school work out equally. Housework we are mostly letting slide as we are so busy (kids 4 and 2 so quite intense to look after still). Today he had them for much longer than I did so I could go out and exercise. He has seen how tired I am so said I can have a lie in both days at the weekend. So not all men are shit, though I'm kind of surprised that women with shit partners are surprised that in times of crisis they are still shit

I agree with you op.
I also agree that more women than men want children.
I believe that if a woman said , I'm not having children, full stop, the vast majority of men would say ' ok didn't and that would be that.

*Women having to bend over backwards to sort getting to the supermarket because her DH won't do it

• no matter who is the higher earner, women doing both WFH and childcare duties while men get their full working days to themselves
• women being the ones sorting crafts, books, writing etc for home schooling whilst men barely know what school year their child is in*

Nah, my husband is fine. He is the one going to the supermarket because it makes me anxious. He is the one looking after our daughter while I work from home. I do the formal teaching of our daughter but he has done craft activities with her. He is my complete equal.

I'm fine with my choice.