To think CV19 pandemic will highlight just how shit so many men are?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

We are obviously in very weird times where there's a general understating that everyone has to step out their comfort zone, adjust things etc be it working from home whilst looking after kids, doing a supermarket shop alone and once in a blue moon and staying indoors all day. However reading, here and on social media in the last few weeks (and RL accounts from friends) that men are unwilling to change the smallest things, including

• Women having to bend over backwards to sort getting to the supermarket because her DH won't do it
• no matter who is the higher earner, women doing both WFH and childcare duties while men get their full working days to themselves
• women being the ones sorting crafts, books, writing etc for home schooling whilst men barely know what school year their child is in.

It does seem that a lot of blokes were happy to have kids and have the fun moments - playing on an evening, holidays etc - but now have the daunting task of doing the hard stuff and can't cope for the life of them.

I suspect that a lot of women put up with this pre-pandemic because it's how they'd always been and she tolerated it because that's what women have been socialises to do. But this uselessness will be a nail in the coffin for many couples. Men have probably got away with a lot because they're Very Busy with work so women got on with things, but working from home probably exposes how Busy men actually are.

AIBU to think that many women will be exposed to just how utterly shit their OHs are?

Disclaimer: sorry not sorry on pointing out it's only men. Never once seen a post about a woman not stepping up to be a mother. Yes NAMALT and I'm sure your Nigel is lovely, but the point is I think a lot of other 'Nigels' will be shown to be nothing of the sort.

What are you whining about, then?

As pp's have said, you won't be hearing about the 'good' ones though, only the ones on here that are shocking.

DH is a great husband, great dad, we're happy for the most part. However, on Monday of this week I had a meltdown in our kitchen and went absolutely off my head about how fucking useless he was at doing his share of stuff with the DC and the house. We're both fortunate that we've not been furloughed, but that means two adults working full time alongside two DC trying to learn, keep fed, keep healthy and generally survive. Since then he's pulled his weight and I'm pissed off that I needed to go ballistic in order for him to realise that he was being a selfish prick - this isn't a side to him I'd seen before and I'm unimpressed. I think you're not wrong, OP, but for every high there is a low and I don't think you're totally right, either.

@Syncrows

What are you whining about, then?
Wtf are you even talking about. This is not a thread on SAHM's. Can you read the thread title. I'm joining in the conversation as yes many men are shit.
Can a man only be shit if the wife stays at home.

No i dont, both men and woman can be equally shit, not all men are wankers or lack in parenting skills.

I dont see the reason to start yet another man hating thread, its pointless!

@CherryPavlova I think the point is that men are often very competent at work, but many believe that home management or ‘wife work’ is beneath them.

My husband is a high ranking military officer and a specialist in his field. It’s taken years of arguments for him to not leave clothes on floor, plates on sides, or even think about cooking a meal. (For those about to say why do I put up with it, I don’t - hence the arguments)

Another interesting counter to you post is WHY are those mostly men? I don’t believe it’s because men are ‘better’ at those jobs (I’m a doctor so know what they involve), but it’s because the roles are harder to fit in with being the primary care giver, (long antisocial hours etc) which usually is down to women

You just described my husband OP.

YABU. The pandemic will highlights how shit some people are though.

My husband can run a business, employ over 50 people and have it running like a dream. Comes home and can't even manage to put his socks in the laundry basket or make a simple decision (just sometimes I'd like to be the one not making a family orientated decision)! Simple things like what do you want for dinner? He will not commit to anything and pass the responsibility back to me asking what is like. Same with where to eat, where to holiday, where to send the children to school....

I am single but my ex's attitude around the DC at the moment is exactly what I would expect from him. He has always left everything to me but it is certainly obvious at the moment. He has a partner and DC with her and I suspect they are suffering and I feel sorry for them.

Guess this is where all the bitter divorcees (or soon to be divorcees) hang out then?

can't even manage to put his socks in the laundry basket or make a simple decision

Can’t? What, really genuinely cannot or chooses not to? Either he thinks he’s better than cleaning up his own mess and you’re not so you should do it for him, or there’s something terribly wrong with him and he needs medical treatment. FGS. Do you want your children growing up thinking this is normal? How can you be remotely attracted to someone who can’t put his dirty clothes in the right place?

No, my DH is fab. Much more of a considerate and patient person than
Me. No complaints here.

This is officially the most mumsnetty mumsnet post of all time! 😂
Some men are shit, some women are shit. Angry women ranting about their husband's on an anonymous online forum to strangers is not an accurate representation of men.
MN also makes it look like all men are cheating bastards and shit fathers, that's because the women in happy secure relationship don't seek validation from strangers

Very sexist, it might also highlight how shit some women are

Some men are crap, some women are crap.
If you think your partner isn’t doing their fair share, kick their arse until they do.
You don’t have to be a martyr and tolerate it

Isn't it a bit disingenuous to act outraged and shocked, and as though this thread could be directly reversed? Women still do the majority of housework even if they're the breadwinners, this isn't some little-known fact.

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/05/breadwinning-wives-gender-inequality/589237/

www.theguardian.com/inequality/2018/feb/17/dirty-secret-why-housework-gender-gap

It's futile to pretend this isn't a social reality, with all this "some WOMEN toooo" stuff.

YANBU.

And this doesn’t apply to me in the slightest as I WFH and DH is doing everything domestic and homework with the kids.

Doesn’t make it any less true for the millions of other women in this country and the world.

Us without children really do feel your plight OP. I can not imagine how difficult it must be to live through this whilst having kids in the mix too. I bet many here are very grateful for the schools and nurseries to ease some of the burden. It really does highlight how different our lives are and I clap for all you parents going through such hardship. Thoughts with everyone 💐

Another interesting counter to you post is WHY are those mostly men? I don’t believe it’s because men are ‘better’ at those jobs (I’m a doctor so know what they involve), but it’s because the roles are harder to fit in with being the primary care giver, (long antisocial hours etc) which usually is down to women

If Syncrows is right, and my prejudice is to agree with her, then the reason women are being primary care givers more than men is because they want children more than men, i.e. men are less willing to sacrifice other things in life to have children. Something that it seems some women only discover after they've had children and are wondering why equality isn't happening. Equality isn't happening because they weren't the same (in their priorities) in the first place.

(I did try to research this once, and to my surprise found the evidence was that men were only slightly less likely than women to say they wanted children. But that research did not attempt to measure how strong the desire was. A follow-up needs to be done where those saying they want children are asked in detail about what sacrifices they're willing to make to facilitate having children. Some of the men saying they want children are probably assuming that a woman will do all the hard bits. And some women probably are willing to sign up for that, in the rare instance where it's properly discussed, in advance.)

OP, I think you're absolutely right. I have 3 young kids, one in school, one in nursery and one a baby. I'm a SAHM right now and as of Tuesday my husband is not working so him being at home is new to us but I have known for a long time how unfair the workload is. I've tried to explain it, I've shouted, cried, raged and I think finally given up for the moment and decided to just carry on for my own sanity and happiness.

I have planned every meal, sourced the shopping, set up milk and egg delivery, stayed up till midnight trying to get a delivery slot as well as cooking almost every meal. I have been the one to source things for the kids, think about their well being emotionally, physically and educationally. I have been the one to do all the schooling, print off activities, find educational resources and plan as well as make sure we have the necessary supplies. I've done almost all the cleaning of the house. I've organised fun things for Easter, made video calls to the kids friends, tried to participate in online classes for the baby and toddler and have joined a group to check on the neighbours. I'm up with the baby in the night too. Almost none of this has even crossed my husbands mind, even when I've mentioned it. He will do things when asked but needs constant direction and it's too exhausting to bother which I know won't make anything change. He then says I nag. He's not a bad man either, just chooses to be clueless and is wondering why I just can't be bothered at all with him.

Almost all my friends have husbands like this, not bad men, just choose to be useless and uninvolved in family life. It's sad all round and unless they want to take more of the load it's hard to get them to truly do. I often think children highlight how little a partnership many marriages can be and it's lonely.

Blows my mind that some people are still trying to pretend that domestic labour isn't a gendered issue. I have lived in 4 different countries, 3 different regions of the UK, mixed with people from every social class, and this has been an issue for the majority of all the women I've ever known. I can only assume that the people claiming they don't recognise this extremely common place and widely studied social dynamic are either in breathtakingly deep denial, being deliberately disingenuous, outright lying, or live in an extremely tightly controlled bubble. This is a problem for my female friends who are doctors and lawyers, PhD level scientists, teachers, cleaners, SAHM, single parents, the privately educated and those who left school at 16, those I know living in Chelsea and those I know living in rural Africa. The domestic burden falls asymmetrically to women, that is a fact, around the world and in your local area. It doesn't matter if your husband is great or your SIL is shit. If your personal situation isn't like that then you are the anomaly and should be glad of it, but please stop gaslighting women that this isn't a widespread problem. It isn't sexism to point out the reality that everyone can see with their own eyes, and it's pointless to say "if this thread were reversed" because this thread represents reality and the reverse would not. OP, yanbu, I hope a lot of women find the strength to leave their shitty men after this is over. Nothing will change until we stop pretending there isn't a problem!

I think you’re absolutely right OP.

Of course the thread is already populated by the utterly redundant NAMALT. Look, if your Nigel is brilliant then this isn’t directed at you.

I’m with the OP; lots of important men working from home whilst women struggle.

I think you’re right but then I’m not sure how many men actually want kids at all.

A lot of men are very, very keen to impregnate women, even in early doors or what they see as casual relationships. They're dying to have, as a PP said, a little mini me to publicly kick around the park with. They absolutely insist on the child having their surname.

It's the 18 years to life of hard work they have no intention of doing. They actively intend the mother to do the raising but to take equal or more credit and almost always have the child branded disproportionately vs effort and money expended with their own family name.

Don't want kids my arse. Don't want hard work more like.

Oh and NAMALT, SWALT blah blah blah.