To ask for help from fellow procastinating under achievers?

[Hingeandbracket]

It started when I failed to do any work at University because there was no-one there to make me.

I have lurched through various jobs with varying degrees of success and or failure.

I berate myself for being lazy and disorganised - but surely it's not as simple as that.

Has anyone climbed out of the pit of their own despair in such circumstances and gone on to become Sir Richard Branson?

I agree with you Bertie about 'lazy' being unhelpful. It's a label, and labels are great for making you feel rubbish about yourself while giving you absolutely no useful tools to improve. My parents used to call me lazy and I'm still haunted by that while puzzled by the knowledge that I spent hours and hours working on my A-level Latin grammar at school - it clearly wasn't enough for them.

It's more helpful to be honest about your capabilities, and work to your real concentration span instead of what you think it ought to be. I find my enthusiasms are random five-minute wonders rather than pointers to real satisfaction, and they tend to evaporate when I reach the limit of my mental stamina and self-belief. If other people are relying on me to get a boring job done, however, I'll finish it, no problem.

I had a great example of this last night. We're behind on the washing (aren't we always? :o) Due to a long standing agreement, DH broadly does the dishwasher while I broadly do the clothes.

So I had put a load in yesterday and went to hang it up in the evening. DH said I should put another load on. I said no, I definitely shouldn't, because there is no way I will hang up another load tonight, even if I pick the quickest cycle. His opinion (although he did not use the word lazy) was that I should just decide to do that. I know that it's extremely unlikely that load will get hung up tonight. So there was no difference in putting the load on tonight and hanging it up tomorrow, vs washing and hanging it up tomorrow, except that the latter will smell fresher and cleaner, as it won't have sat around in the machine for ages.

Old me would have put the load on in the evening, then castigated myself for being "too lazy" to hang it up. I'm not too lazy to hang it up - but I know I've motivated myself once already during my evening time and it's not going to happen again.

I put the stuff in on a timer instead, so it will finish around 12.30 today. That's most likely earlier than I would have managed to put in a load and have it finish by (or hang one up from last night) if I had decided "I'm not going to be lazy; I'll do it now". The fact it finishes at that time and I can get it before it gets musty is likely to motivate me to hang it up compared with "That washing has been sat there all night - it doesn't matter if I hang it up now or later". I've essentially managed to combine motivation of missing that fresh-washing window + a time that I'm not tired/thinking about it being my leisure time, by being honest with myself about my propensity to be "lazy".

Looking up the meds now

Today’s example of lazy

There’s ballet on at the cinema

I would LOVE to go. But as it involves getting properly dressed and getting on a bus, etc, I probably won’t. Then at 5pm I’ll be saying, oh, I should have gone.

I suppose the argument is, if I really wanted to, I would.

Well, maybe. Maybe you don't really want to go that much. But also remember that perspective thing. The reward (seeing the ballet) is far away so it looks much smaller than it really is. The hump (getting dressed, leaving house, catching bus etc) is close and so it looks enormous. From where you're sitting, the balance of work:reward isn't very good, so it's unlikely you'll complete the work for that reward and that's not lazy, it's pretty sensible based on the info that you have. To someone without ADHD, though, the reward wouldn't look so small/far away, and the hump wouldn't look as big. So they would have an easier time deciding yep, that's worth it, I'll go today. Doesn't mean that they want it more than you. It just means they have a different perspective. You have to understand that your perspective is warped and "put glasses on" (if you like) to remind yourself that no, getting dressed and catching a bus isn't as hard as your brain wants you to think it is, and yes, it will be worth the effort to go out and do something (anything).

But also, I find that unless I make a plan in advance of the day I am highly unlikely to actually do something that involves going out. Sounds like you are probably the same. So - why don't you make a plan to do that next weekend? Invite a friend. Then you will be likely to see it through. It would also help if as part of your plan you look up which showing you will see, and which bus to catch. (I would then put these into Google Calendar to save me having to look them up again later). Then 90% of it is done, and all you have to do is get dressed and eat food at a reasonable time in advance, which you will probably do if you already have a plan (or at least, you'll finish it all in a hurry at the last minute). Inviting the friend is a bit of a sneak trick as well because you will feel worse about the prospect of letting your friend down than you would about missing this tiny pinprick of a thing in the distance that you can't properly "see".

You've described me to a tee,I've always considered myself lazy or just incompetent.
Then I thought it was my mental health and now the more I learn the more I'm convinced there may be an underlying cause,it's been suggested my dd is on the spectrum and we are very very similar.

Bertie, it was only on today.

I’m currently under scheduling seeing friends because I have to spend so much free time with my elderly mum, I then find I’ve no energy left. Next friend meet up is 9th, then 14th. They are in the diary but not as frequently. This week I have 2 medical appointments for mum.

I do wish I’d gone today. I’ve done some domestics and MN!

I’ll try to remember the size of the reward thing.

Everyone - look after your mental health please and DO NOT get sucked into the persistent lateness thread on AIBU :)

(I always get drawn into these and I always regret it - stay away!)

Oh I haven’t seen that

I have a passionate hatred of lateness

I have been thinking more today...I looked up the names suggested here for, the College Geek and the guy, was it Russell? Same advice I’ve been trying to follow for years. It seems like the same advice is given for all mental health things which is fine, I guess, if that’s all we know.

I’ve come back to lazy so I think I need to find ways of making the reward bigger and also switch workouts back to the morning. My schedule has been massively interrupted by odd work hours and staying with mum often (since dad died) but I think I performed much better when I did a morning workout.

So even if I split it, it’s probably better to do something first thing - object in motion and all that.

Yes I’m
Like this and I’m sure I’d be diagnosed with add today. I really struggled at school and was bullied by my teachers because of disorganisation etc: it had really affected my self esteem as had the go start guilt for having so
Much potential but not having enough focus.

Russell Barkley? He just gets it IME. It's not so much the advice, it's the explanations of how the ADHD brain processes things.

Morning workouts are good. I actually find exercise has a really positive effect for me. Weirdly I got into conversation with DS1's PE teacher (hot) and it turns out he did his dissertation on what sports help ADHD. Apparently yoga and breathing is best. But I would suspect that is in relation to children and hyperactivity... I don't know though.

Based on all this, I really don’t have ADHD, just laziness.

Someone upthread suggested more like ASD for me bit that doesn’t account for laziness either.

I don't believe in laziness. Especially not when it's preventing you from doing things you'd like to do (such as the ballet you wanted to watch). True laziness is like a sense of entitlement - like other people are meant to do the hard work while you just sit around and be waited on. The kind of laziness you describe doesn't sound like that.

But it might not be ADHD. ASD could be more like it, combined with sensory issues can lead to faster overwhelm and overload which can feel like laziness when really it's that ordinary things are more exhausting than they are for most people.

There is a big overlap between ASD and ADHD - I tend to get a "spiky" profile on ASD assessments as I'm right up there hitting the markers on half of the points and right down in the neurotypical region for other points.

Bertie - I definitely believe in laziness!

“ True laziness is like a sense of entitlement - like other people are meant to do the hard work while you just sit around and be waited on”

I live alone so no option. I will say when I still lived at my parents house, dad would clean my car for me 😂

If I had one of those “domestic machine” partners, I’d probably let them get on with it, sure.

If I could afford a maid, I would absolutely do that. And a cook, and cleaner. It’s the dream of my life to live in a big house and do naff all.

I relate OP. I am diagnosed with ADHD. When I am particularly overwhelmed, I find it extremely hard despite medication, self-awareness and strategies.

It’s the dream of my life to live in a big house and do naff all.
Me too - but I wouldn't just be vegging out in an armchair - I could go and do stuff I'd prefer to do.

OP

But would we actually do that?

But would we actually do that?
Yes I think so - my life would consist of random poorly-organised trips and wandering about instead of work-dodging is all.

I think I've found my kindred spirits here. Does anyone else struggle to hear when more than one noise going on? I struggle so bad I genuinely thought I had gone deaf. Hearing test however says my hearing is actually brilliant. If there's music on and my husbands talking to me, or toddler making noise in the background, or in a noisy meeting room at work I feel physically stressed and can't take in anything at all.

Do they even do diagnosing for adults? I've had help and meds for anxiety and depression but it's this constant undercurrent of imposter syndrome and guilt.

Posting to simply placemark this thread - wiill return and post later because I'm exactly the same

This is SO me. I have found that I am.slightly better now that I have a child at school, just because there is an external factor strongly motivating me to stay organised, but otherwise I just find simple things so fucking difficult and tiring. Cleaning is a nightmare because I can't just stay focused on one task and complete it. Getting started on anything dull, or finishing jobs off.properly when I've done the interesting bit - nightmare.

I have ordered some saffron extract capsules as in a small trial they were found to be equally effective as the stimulant methylphenidate in children with ADHD.

I don’t have a diagnosis of adhd but my late teens dd was recently diagnosed . Anti depressant meds since teens have stopped me acting on suicidal thoughts but precious little else. I haven’t worked since I had children & know that I’ve coped by having a relatively narrow life centred on home & children & routine/organisation.

I have spent the last 2.5 years trying to not be palmed off with dd’s symptoms & am now trying to pursue an EHCP for dd so she can return to studying A levels with support after dropping out of sixth form after an apparent breakdown.

So many symptoms fit me but it’s a >2yr wait for assessment on the NHS here and I think I’d struggle to get credible evidence of how I was in childhood(apart from sleep difficulties).

Boring myself now

Every sodding thing on this thread has hit home. I've often wondered whether both I and my DC have adhd. My school reports always mentioned organisation and a tendency to daydream and I have spent my whole life failing to finish projects, even ones I really want to complete. I have an alarmed pill box designed for dementia patients otherwise I'd forget my daily dose of ADs.

@BertieBotts what you say about noradrenaline is very interesting. I have depression and my SRI was changed to an SNRI about 2 years ago, which was much more effective. I wonder if at least some of my depressive symptoms could actually be ADHD? I also do cold water swimming which helps and is also supposed to increase levels of noradrenaline.

I am definitely going to look into diagnosis more carefully.

Yes, at least for me my depression went away once I was diagnosed.

For me the depression (never diagnosed because it never felt right but I am certain if I'd spoken to a doctor about it, it would have been) just never quite fitted as a label. I'd be there recognising that these beliefs I had about myself (I'm useless, I'm no good, there is nothing lovable or worthy about me, I mess everything up, I can't achieve anything I want to, I don't even want to get out of bed) were unhealthy but I also couldn't stop thinking then not because I was depressed but because I knew that they were true - I had objective evidence that that was the case. So although I knew if I walked into a doctor's office and said I'm useless and worthless and there's not one reason anybody should like me, they would Diagnose me with depression, I just felt like that wasn't the case because those beliefs weren't false.

Thank goodness for perspective!! I don't feel that way any more, but I can totally see where younger me was coming from, and while it was a bit overblown, I wasn't being delusional. I did drive away friends, I couldn't complete any of my goals, I was massively struggling with basic tasks of adulthood and parenting. Now I understand why, that doesn't make me instantly better at those things. I still have moments of utter failure and hopelessness. But I have a framework to place these failures on, they are not random, they are more within my control than I think, I was just pressing the wrong buttons on the controller (if you like).