To think most women tolerate sex to keep their relationships

[penelopepitstopsgain]

I don't doubt there are many women, who enjoy the physical side of their relationships but I've spoken to so many who would rather just have a cuddle and a good book but submit, for want of a better word, to their partner for fear they'll stray or see it as their obligation- even I find that sometimes I really can't be bothered and lie to my partner that its my time of the month just to get some peace. I can see as I get older that I'd rather just have a companion rather than the constant pressure of sex - so am I alone in thinking this or just incredibly cynical or even possibly asexual? Vote
Yes = You're cynical
No = I can relate

Yet gay men seem to negotiate monogamish/open relationships, or certainly tolerate infidelity more. I do think this is something cultural about controlling women (and their reproduction?). There have also been a lot of books written about this! My favourites are the ones who look at our physiology and decide that, actually, women are designed to have multiple lovers and that is why men's penises have a ridge to scoop out other men's semen, and their ejaculate also contains a spermicide to kill the semen of the next man along!

I imagine your man is probably a selfish or unimaginative lover.

Honestly I don’t think open relationships work for the majority of people. One partner inevitably ends up emotionally intangled and / or one person gets more attention. It’s just a recipe for disaster.

Almost all relationships need loyalty to survive.

I think a lot of (heterosexual) men are just a bit shit at sex, but it is less bruising to their egos for them to be told that women just naturally have lower sex drives

I think a lot of (heterosexual) men are just a bit shit at sex, but it is less bruising to their egos for them to be told that women just naturally have lower sex drives

I think that is really true, after having had sex with more men in my late thirties my eyes were really opened to how many men just don’t make good lovers. And those that do are like gold!

I would say it’s not ‘skill’ so much either, just the willingness to see each other as a human being and not let sex become all about the orgasm.

I’ve had two very long term relationships now with men who were great in bed, and it has not waned at all. Sex is still as good, if not better, than at first. It really can be as good as that but it does take both partners getting in touch with their own sexuality and being able to connect somewhere in the middle. That connection is not easy to put into words, it’s a visceral feeling.

Yet gay men seem to negotiate monogamish/open relationships, or certainly tolerate infidelity more. I see just as much heartbreak about this with gay men, and many become very cynical about infidelity as they grow older and like to be off the scene. And definitely a lot more if they’ve chosen to have kids and a family.

It is easy to lose your mojo...I've been with DH for 25 years now and its really difficult as we sleep separately (purely because we both snore) have a teenage son and my elderly mother creaking around the place so we go for a night away as much as possible to maintain our intimacy. Travel lodge for £27 is totally worth it. Self love is crucial too - invest in toys because, Lady, you are missing out!

I also very much agree with many heterosexual men not being great in bed. I think a lot of this stems from not taking the time/having the skill to read emotions, not being able to open up sexually or to really engage with their partner to understand their desires. I also think there is some truth that they innately may just not have the ability to perform well, I mean if you really think about it how many can actually dance well? In some ways they have just been designed to get the job done. That’s not to say they can’t improve and develop the skill... they need to put in the effort and take the time to learn it. This however takes admission of not being good in the first place! Can their egos handle that?! It’s just so much easier for them to blame the woman and say she’s frigid...

I've never used sex as a way to keep a man but I have left one because the sex wasn't good ( after talking to him lots of times to try and find a way forward and improve things )
Similarly If other things were going wrong in a relationship but sex was good I wouldn't stay with somebody just for sex.

Let me fix that for you

I think a lot of (heterosexual) men AND WOMEN, are just a bit shit at sex, but it is less bruising to their egos for them to be told that women just naturally have lower sex drives

What makes you think it's the women as well, 5zeds? It's the men who don't bring their female partners to orgasm, not the women.

Yeah that really doesn’t make any sense at all. Most women will make a man come quite easily simply by virtue of engaging in the mechanics of sex.

As to female orgasm, the fact that we still have many women who are not aware (or at least, haven’t actually internalised that knowledge) that the majority of women do not routinely orgasm from PIV sex says something, doesn’t it. If even the woman doesn’t realise that, what hope does she have of expecting a reciprocal sexual relationship, given that so many men seem to be either clueless or not that bothered about returning the favour. Porn has a lot to answer for. Especially now that most young men will be getting their sex ‘education’ from there long before they’ll be having any meaningful relationships.

I had to have sex every Saturday night with my ex husband which, now I look back on it, amounted to marital rape - because he knew I loathed it but went ahead anyway.

And he used to encourage me to drink myself into oblivion beforehand to 'release my inhibitions' so I ended up with serious alcohol dependence and a victim mentality leading to depression. I was very passionate about him when we first met, but It's a slippery downhill slope...

I have friends who also submit to sex thinking they owe it to their husbands, one of whom calls it 'transactional' sex.

Now I am happily on my own and enjoy having a double bed all to my lovely self!

@ tillyhoho that's a truly horrific story and I really feel for you and hope you're in a better place now.
For all the lighthearted banter on this thread there a few which stand out (such as yours) that highlight how the notion that we all should be having sex can have sinister connotations and consequences.
Sexlessness (see I've just created a new word) can be so much more peaceful and less stressful imo
Stay strong

I love my husband dearly and we have been together for 16 years, married for 14, my husband, as he has got older, is not interested in sex, (might be to do with the fact he is Aspergers) and neither am I, so we don't do it anymore. Also, we are both on antidepressants, for different reasons, (not to do with the marriage), which can decrease your sex drive. It doesn't seem to bother either of us and sometimes it is more about being comfortable with each other and enjoying your relationship. It is not always about sex.

I do really like, and broadly agree with, Localocal’s approach - an understanding of the importance of sex as a way of connecting emotionally, acknowledging one’s partner’s deep need for that, and investing in the foundations of the relationship in a way that fulfils their needs and yearnings, and indirectly also fulfils your own broader needs for intimacy and companionship, is a really good way of looking at it. That’s an empowering choice, rather than a dutiful chore that one barely tolerates.

But that can only happen in an equal, healthy, respectful and fundamentally caring relationship where both parties feel loved, appreciated and cared about. If it’s a demand made regardless of how you feel (ill, exhausted, stressed, depressed, recovering from pregnancy/dealing will long term complications from childbirth, etc etc) and without any true appreciation of your existence as a person with your own valid needs and wants, or in that misogynistic, entitled way that’s akin to seeing one’s partner as nothing more than an appliance for sexual gratification, then that’s just grim.

@tillyhoho I’m so glad you’re away from that horrible man.

There is no ‘should’ when it comes to sex. There is absolutely no moral imperative to want sex or be willing to have it.

I think the important thing is not to indefinitely starve your partner of a sexual relationship if they’re not happy with a sexless relationship. That’s not fair or loving and if it doesn’t work for both people then I really don’t think it will be a healthy relationship in the long run.

I think the idea that lots of men are shit at sex but most women are ok because men have low standards is gross sexist and illogical. What are you measuring as ‘good’ or ‘bad’, are you using a sex specific rule or is it one measure fits both sexes?
Look it’s fine if you don’t like sex, if you find it boring or if you just don’t like your partner that way anymore. What’s odd is assuming it’s the same for everyone or that if it isn’t it’s because that person isn’t doing it right or conversely hasn’t been with their partner long enough. Everybody is different. They have different needs and different experience. Sex is no different.

That’s not what people are saying. In fact it seems rather odd that that’s what you’ve taken from the discussion.

Male orgasm is straightforward (generally speaking) - you perform the mechanics by hand or by thrust, or whatever means you’ve chosen and all being well he will come. Women’s orgasms, by and large, take a little more effort. They are not a matter of simple mechanics, because the clitoris is not as uniform in need and function as the average penis is. It’s not sexist to say that. It’s simple biological fact.

And many men are lazy, can’t be bothered or don’t even realise that their partner isn’t going to just come from him thrusting into her or uncommittedly twiddling at her clitoris for two minutes.

Just because a man has an orgasm doesn't mean the woman he's having sex with is any good in bed. Ime men orgasm even when the sex is shit.
I'd say a lot of people, men and women in equal measure, aren't any good in bed.
I have talked to a lot of women about sex and have always been amazed by how many women have never masturbated. How are you going to orgasm with a man when you can't even get yourself to orgasm?
So many women also seem to view sex as dirty and penises as "gross". How are you going to enjoy sex with that attitude?
I think it's lazy to blame the lack of a fulfilling sex life on just one partner in all cases. Sometimes it's one partner's fault, most of the time, it's just a failure to work together.

In fact it seems rather odd that that’s what you’ve taken from the discussion. is that a “fact”?. It sounds more of an opinion. The entire thread is full of stereotypes and archaic takes on sexuality, I could say that was a “fact” too, but its actually my opinion odd or not.

Cuddling to me is snuggling - so cuddled up together on sofa to watch a film, resting in each other’s arms in bed whilst going to sleep, touching legs or feet whilst reading on the sofa. But also means more fleeting acts of affection such as a proper hug and kiss on meeting here and there at home, or on leaving home or arriving back. Holding someone when they’re crying or upset until they feel better, touches of affection (a brush the cheek, holding head in hands and giving a little kiss, a back massage if they’re in pain), just sitting close and being together.

Making out is different to me - proper kissing, touching, very sensual and sexual even if it doesn’t lead to sex. And actually very intimate, very satisfying and very sexy.

I think more women than men experience bad sex and poor medical care around birth & menopause. However I don’t think it’s inherently true. I do think we have a very sexist society which means women feel they have to put up with crap that men wouldn’t.

@5zeds yes, that is in fact, exactly what I meant. We’re obviously all just stating our opinions, which is what discussions are generally all about. But I’ll happily restate it for you, just to be clear:

It is a fact that my personal opinion is that your take-away from this discussion seems odd (in relation to that specific statement).

Incidentally, I’m not in disagreement with you that many statements on this thread do reflect stereotypes and archaic views on sexuality. I’ve already taken issue with the premise of the OP based on my own experience. That doesn’t mean I can’t take issue with your specific statement, which didn’t really make sense in the given context.