Having children to take care of you in old age

[ThatsNotMyCherry]

I want to know how to articulate why this is is wrong.

In recent years as her kids have flown the nest my mum has started going on about this a lot. She’s always saying how parents do so much for their children when they’re young so it’s their children’s duty to do the same when they’re old. I think she believes that in every relationship you should get back as much as you put in. She’s been a housewife her whole life and in recent years does a fair bit of care for her own mother. She tells me about people she knows who are unwell but their kids are busy working and raising their own families. Obviously neglecting your parents when they’re old isn’t right but people have their own lives and are entitled to live them. I think part of the problem may be that she’s never had a life outside of caring. When I tell her I don’t expect this from my children and want them to have their own happy, fulfilled lives she says I will only understand when they grow up, leave and then need them.

The thing is people are living longer and with many more chronic conditions than a generation ago. I’ve seen families struggle to cope with caring for their elderly relatives including managing all their various medical conditions for years on end. Often both the elderly and families suffer because family members through no fault of their own lack the resources and knowledge to give the elderly the best care and when they eventually go into a home they are often a lot better cared for.

I believe that it is a family’s duty to care for elderly relatives but that care can take many forms. . I come from an Asian Indian background and had grandparents in India. DM and DA cared for them from two different countries by paying for and vetting carers / medication, visiting 1-2 times a year each (and staying for up to 4 weeks at a time) to keep them company, and calling them weekly. That last part is important as my grandmother literally lived for those calls.

My DF’s parents lived with us. DG (my DF’s mum) pretty much did all the childcare for all of her grandchildren, cooked when DM couldn’t. She was older than my DM’s mum but was made of sterner stuff and while unwell her death came as a shock (accidental). My grandfather wasn’t well and probably had some form of undiagnosed MH or PTSD condition - he was a nightmare to live with and caring for him in the final days was very difficult for my mum and dad. He would have been better served in a care home in his final days but our local care home had closed and the nearest one would have been miles away. It would have been more difficult for my DP to visit him everyday than have him at home.

My DP and youngest DB also provide care for another relative (who doesn’t have kids) at home. Carers come 3-4 times a day to provide personal care and it’s all paid for as this relative doesn’t have savings. This relative gets to enjoy family live and loves it when our kids come over which is a lot.

From my perspective I would definitely try to care for my DP if it came to that (it probably won’t as both are disabled in their sixties and may die younger than their parents). DM managed to care for DG and this relative while working in a high profile job and earning a very good salary - so I know it’s possible to manage work and caring responsibilities with work and raising kids.

I think this is where British Asian (and British Caribbean and British Irish) families differ in that we know it’s possible to manage caring for the elderly / disabled and work and raise kids / provide care for grandkids because we have seen it. If you haven’t seen it then it would be daunting - but honestly in many ways excluding conditions like Alzeimers it’s often easier to have elderly parents / grandparents at home with you if you can have the right support.

I may well be in a position to need care when I am older as I had my DC late. I will try to be as healthy as possible (which is probably easier to do nowadays as we have better healthcare and awareness) and save as much as I can towards this. I would love to be able to live near my DS and be useful in terms of childcare like my DM and my Dad’s mum were, but understand it might not be possible. At the very least I would expect regular calls and visits.

If someone has a child just so they can then demand that said child become their carer later in life, then they are doing it for very selfish reasons.

Parents choose to bring children into the world, children don't ask to be born, so they really don't owe parents anything in regards to 'well I looked after you when you were young so now you need to look after me'

I don’t think for my parents it’s really ever been questioned that their children would visit regularly or do shopping, appointments etc. I think what troubles my mum is that we won’t be able to give her the same level of support she gives her mother - she visits her every day for 2-3 hours. All of my mothers children work and I can’t see any of us giving that up. Even if our financial situations were really great I think we all feel that we have worked too hard and that we value our financial independence too much to do that.

Is she anxious about it and seeking reassurance from you?

I was always there for my mum, unlike my brothers but I have no expectations that the same will happen for me. Who knows where my DDs life will take her

In my husband's culture old people are not put in to homes but looked after in the bosom of their family.

Otherwise known as all the care done by women. Good luck when you have a doubly incontinent parent with bed sores who’s heavy and unable to move.

I can’t think of anything I’d like less than my children becoming my carers. I’d like to retain a family relationship and not have them showering me.
Professional care comes with far better protection than family care and we will plan our futures to ensure we are in suitable housing, with access to support, by the time we reach our 80s.
I wouldn’t want our children to feel we were a burden. I want to enjoy our relationships as long as possible and would much rather a pub lunch than time spent doing my laundry.

This is so interesting. Last year I found myself as next of kin for an elderly relative who had no children and whose health has deteriorated. I have primary aged children and a job and it has been brutal. In much the same way as nothing prepares you for caring for a newborn baby, I don’t think you can really appreciate the magnitude of the task until you have experienced it.

I agree with what @ItWillBeBetterinAugust said about the different expectations of caring for elderly people in the past vs now.

I also found what @GrumpyHoonMain said about different cultures having a better idea of what elderly care involves very interesting. I wonder whether elderly people in these cultures are ‘better’ at ageing due to having witnessed it. My own elderly relative is very resistant to accepting help which causes a sort of crisis cycle:

1. Relative has crisis
2. I turn my life upside down rushing about to arrange care, get on top of neglected self care, get on top of neglected home, etc
3. Relative has brief period of stability so decides she can cope and starts dismissing carers and refusing help
4. situation deteriorates until inevitable crisis occurs, rinse and repeat.

We are on cycle 3 now. She’s just dismissed one of her carers, so I’m enjoying the brief lull before the next crisis.

DH’s parents are getting frailer and we are their only local relatives and I am dreading it.

*In the past an elderly person no longer able to get themselves to the toilet or dinner table would just be left in bed, cleaned at intervals and visited briefly with meals on a tray. People needing long term/ rest of their life care weren't got up in order to include them in family life, helped to get out of the house (especially beyond a balcony or garden) for quality of life reasons nor were their wishes fully respected.

Going back to when all care was done in the family the only expectation was that family would keep relatives fed and relatively clean, as far as manageable. No more. Perfectly fine to leave a non mobile elderly person confined permanently to one room. The standards of care accepted a hundred years ago would have relatives under social services investigation and criminal charges today*

Like most generalisations this is utter bollocks. My gran was cared for by my mum and two of her sisters until her death in 1978. She was in the heart of their homes, up and dressed every day, at the table at family meals, treated as she always had been. She was bed ridden for the last few weeks and didn’t spend a waking moment alone.

MN is full of people saying that they don’t see why they should look after their elderly parents because they didn’t provide child care. If that’s not transactional, I don’t know what is.

I’m of an age where I’ve seen my in-laws and then my own parents become old and infirm. And they changed very fundamentally from being perfectly nice, independent people into being far more needy and demanding and not (in FILs case) having any boundaries into how March he wanted from us. Whilst refusing any paid care for a long time.

As a family we have done our best but it’s hard. I’m actually full of resentment that my own parents have moved a long distance away and spent all their money which is now impacting on their children. Yes they did what we have all promoted which was to have a great time and do all the things they wanted to do. Except make adequate provision for their old age.

This has taught me that my number one priority is to have enough funds to provide for myself in old age. I hope I won’t be a drain on my DC in any way but I also plan to be able to live in comfort whatever that may need to be.

But my experience has also shown me that old age does change people.

I had to care for my Mum during her final illness and it was unbelievably hard and unbelievably stressful. I was honestly close to a breakdown by the end.

I only have one child. I absolutely hate the idea that he will have the burden of taking care of us in our old age. I'm working towards putting as much away as possible so we have the resources available to stay as healthy as we can and to live independently for as long as possible.

Thought provoking thread. I very much anticipate taking some part in the care of my parents in their old age. I see it as a natural part of family life. All of my grandparents died at home, loved and surrounded by family.
In extending our home, one of our considerations was the potential needs of an elderly infirm parent.

But would I inflict myself on my dc? I’d like to be taken care of by someone who didn’t resent me, wasn’t appalled by it and wasn’t putting their relationship or career under strain.

Because of asd I couldn’t depend on ds, which would place all the burden on dd who, from an early age, has been very clear on her intentions to have a career. I think that family care of the elderly only works when you live at a reasonable distance, and someone is at home.

I think you have to be realistic about the society and times that you’re living in.

I imagine that by the time my generation are old, euthanasia will be the solution, and any of us not keen will be seen as selfish. It seems inevitable.

I expect my daughter (and any other children I am lucky to have) to look after me. I would never expect them to have me live with them, but check I have the right care, call on me etc. I dont think thats demanding or unreasonable.

My aunt never had any children and often hints to me and my cousins "who will look after me". Whilst I love my aunt, I do think looking after your parents is almost a thank you for the slog they put in having you. My aunt had a fun selfish life- why shouldnt see- but I wont be looking after her.

Our dds are long grown up, and I never want them to have to look after me in old age, nor does dh. Nor do I want them to feel at all obliged to. They have their own lives, and speaking from experience, no matter how much you love them, old people with physical/mental health problems can be a very great worry and a burden. Especially nowadays, when families are so often scattered and people need to work that much longer.

We have said as much very clearly in our Health and Welfare power of attorney documents. Luckily there should be enough money to pay for any care that may be needed.

Personally I think it selfish for anyone to expect their children to look after them in old age. But I’m afraid to say that the very elderly can become very self centred and demanding, and unwilling or unable to think of anyone but themselves. Which is another reason our wishes are clearly stated now, in our Ps of A.

"Well they raise us. They often help with childcare. I don't think it's too much to ask if my parents need my help in old age."

And that's a lovely thought till you get to the age where they need you and you still need to work to pay off the mortgage and have teenage kids needing yo plan for their futures etc. How do you pull it out if the bag then?

I can't watch 'Wanted down under' on TV as I find it very difficult when the people have ageing parents, who perhaps would never be able to fly to see them, yet they still go and live on the other side of the world.

My parents didn't expect constant care from us and, thankfully, didn't need to go into care homes. I wouldn't have wanted to move away because I wanted to see them often, I wanted to do things for them that they struggled a bit with and I wanted to make sure they weren't lonely.

I know we shouldn't totally sacrifice our lives for others but I just feel the pendulum has swung too far and people are a lot more selfish these days.

people are a lot more selfish these days

People are thinking of their children's opportunities as well as their own. It would be selfish of older people to expect their adult children to stay at home to support them rather than go aborad where their young children will have better opportunities.

Selfish people are very keen on accusing others of selfishness.

So I think my mum would probably be able to afford paid care and she would get external care if she needed it however she thinks (having seen it with her own mother) that it’s not good enough so you do need your children.

I just feel the pendulum has swung too far and people are a lot more selfish these days

It's more selfish to expect your child to give up their life for you. They didn't choose to be born. You can't have children and then curtail their life so they're around to look after you when you're old.

Why can't people take responsibility for themselves? Why are they so willing to rely on others? What happens if your DC are too unwell to care for you, or they die young, or they have commitments to their own children? It's so, so wrong to rely on your offspring to care for you in old age!

Excellent post @ItWillBeBetterinAugust we certainly can't compare caring today with that of 100 years ago. If we left a frail relative stuck in a room today with minimal interraction it would be deemed abuse, whereas it was the norm back then, and accepted as such.

I think parents looking after their children up to adulthood is expected and does not need to be repaid by the adult children looking after the parents in old age.

I think if the parents assist their adult children with childcare for gc and financially ie house deposit then I think the adult children should assist their parents in their old age...not necessarily 24 hour care but something.

My own parents died when I was young so I won't have this issue to deal with...however, i also haven't had any gp support with my dc or any of the benefits of having parents in my adulthood. It's the shittest silver lining ever but i'll take it.
My mil won't get any help from me.

I’ll be doing precisely nothing for my dm if she ever needs care she can pay for it or my dsis can do it all
After the abusive childhood I had she deserves nothing

Re what they do in ‘other cultures’, we have Indian friends (in India) whose elderly parent with dementia was looked after in her own home many miles away, by two live-in carers. As our friends said, such arrangements are common in India for anyone who can afford it, and they are by no means very wealthy. As they pointed out, such arrangements are comparatively far cheaper and easier to organise in India than they would be in the U.K.

I must say that having looked after an in law with dementia 24/7, until I was on my knees with stress and exhaustion - I get heartily sick of pious comments about nasty uncaring Brits who don’t look after their own - nearly always from people who haven’t the faintest bloody clue of what looking after someone with dementia can mean.

All too often it does not simply mean gently getting more forgetful!

As we too were blithely unaware until we were living with it full time.

@GrumpyHoonMain - I am from the same culture and I see a lot of very unhappy women aged 30-50 doing a lot of caring and also working and getting very little appreciation. Sometimes it works well but it's not the lovely state of affairs people sometimes like to suggest