Having children to take care of you in old age

[ThatsNotMyCherry]

I want to know how to articulate why this is is wrong.

In recent years as her kids have flown the nest my mum has started going on about this a lot. She’s always saying how parents do so much for their children when they’re young so it’s their children’s duty to do the same when they’re old. I think she believes that in every relationship you should get back as much as you put in. She’s been a housewife her whole life and in recent years does a fair bit of care for her own mother. She tells me about people she knows who are unwell but their kids are busy working and raising their own families. Obviously neglecting your parents when they’re old isn’t right but people have their own lives and are entitled to live them. I think part of the problem may be that she’s never had a life outside of caring. When I tell her I don’t expect this from my children and want them to have their own happy, fulfilled lives she says I will only understand when they grow up, leave and then need them.

You put words in her mouth, she said help which you managed to contort into 24 hour care. Why do that

Because in my mind thats what "providing care" means.

Well lets ask her- @CarolinaPink, when you say "providing care" do you mean the odd bit of shopping and help to appointments or do you mean giving a parent personal care, helping with bathing, medication, mobility, toilet transfers etc?

I haven't read all of the thread yet, but I wouldn't expect my DC to take care of us. However, I would like them to look out for us, advocate for DH and me (inc arranging care packages if needed), and maybe run some errands for us. I would hope that we will have good family relationships when they are adults so that they would care enough about us to want to do this. I would also like to help them out with some childcare (although not childminding!) if either of them become parents, I'd like good relationships with any grandchildren.

In a good, caring and supportive extended family I would hope that it would be a bit socialist in practice - ie each member provides according to ability, each takes according to need and I would like to think that we are able to have this type of family.

Of course, in practice, many families have selfish offspring who leave all the parent support to one sibling, or parents who won't help out with any childcare or support with grandchildren but then expect their children to drop everything when they need help. Time will tell how ours works out. :)

In a good, caring and supportive extended family

Not everyone has this though, I have one sibling on the other side of the world and am the only one here in the UK to care for my parents or their 5 childless siblings. ..

In a good, caring and supportive extended family I would hope that it would be a bit socialist in practice - ie each member provides according to ability, each takes according to need and I would like to think that we are able to have this type of family

I’m an only child. What should I do then?! I don’t have anyone else to share the burden or anyone to provide anything. It’s all on me.

No i wouldn't. My mum has been caring for her ederly parents for several years and i have helped where i can. It has had a bad efect on family life. I cannot even remember the last time i went on holiday or the last time i could sit down to watch something without a phone call to say that something has gone wrong. A few weeks ago i couldn't even enjoy a relaxing bath. I am certainly not putting my life on hold to care for my mum when she is old. I do want a kid and they will always come first and they will have a life even when i need care. I would do everything in my power to avoid any future kids giving up their life to care for me. Sorry if my post sounds harsh

It’s all on me.

^This - a team of family providing short term care to a parent is one thing, but one person spending 20 years caring for various family members with dementia isn't fair. I am making provision for my own care so my kids never have to feel obligated.

*Nursing homes are depressing and shit and shorten lifespan.

So either younger family will look after you or you’ll be abandoned to an uncaring system.*

That hasn’t been my experience. My father lived months longer than we expected when he went into a nursing home. His consultant was amazed.

Either you love them (in which case you help) or you don't.

My parents live 800 miles away in another state and I'm about 15-17 years away from retirement. So if I don't quit my job, leave my husband and children and move 800 miles away to provide care, then I don't love them. Got it.

A coworker of mine is in her early forties and her mother, who is physically healthy but is declining mentally, can no longer be on her own. She has a carer staying with her mother because she can't possibly quit her job in her forties to provide full-time care. How would she make ends meet otherwise? What would she live on when she was in her sixties?

My kids know that I don't expect them to take full on care of me when I'm infirm. I'm doing everything I can now so that I don't become a burden, financially and otherwise. It was my choice to have children, after all.

@GrumpiestOldWoman

Agree completely. I will help out where I can but I am not sacrificing my entire middle age for my parents. If people think that’s selfish or interpret that as “I don’t love them” then so be it. I don’t really care what an outside stranger thinks.

Imagine what it’s like for your mum @Furrydog7. It must be 1000 times worse for her.

Having recently seen FIL have several health crisis and being discharged to a care home because MIL could not look after him safely even with a maximum care package I think nowadays it’s often unrealistic to expect family members to do the physical caring because the elderly can be immobile, incontinent and prone to falls often needing specialised equipment and multiple experienced staff to deal with it safely. The best thing elderly relatives can do when still mentally with it is to write wills and set up POA. As a family we have has supported MIL with attending hospital and care home meetings advocating for PIL and sorting out finances and their house.

@Furrydog7

Not harsh at all. I completely agree with you and feel the same way. My children need to live their own lives, not give up everything to take care of me. Likewise, I don't want them expecting their own children to drop everything to take care of them when the time comes.

Don’t think it’s a given that having children means they will look after you, just overheard a horrible middle aged man in the supermarket bullying his elderly mother, with obvious mobility issues (she was hunched over a Zimmer frame) into hurrying up, he was fed up of taking her shopping, because she took so long. She was struggling to carry the two bits of shopping, she was allowed. Whilst her twat son marched around a shop picking nice stuff for himself.
Never felt such a strong urge to whack someone over the head with a shopping basket as I just did at the sight of that obnoxious prick.

Russellbrandshair Sat 22-Feb-20 19:51:57
I’m an only child. What should I do then?! I don’t have anyone else to share the burden or anyone to provide anything. It’s all on me.

Do what you are able to support them and don't feel guilty for what you can't do. DH is an only too, and I will make sure he understands there are limits to what you can and should do.

Gonetoget Sat 22-Feb-20 20:11:36
Don’t think it’s a given that having children means they will look after you, just overheard a horrible middle aged man in the supermarket bullying his elderly mother, with obvious mobility issues

Well, if he has kids I hope they've witnessed how he treats his mother and therefore how he expects to be treated when he in turn is old . . .

MuddlingMackem. It really upset me witnessing that and I wish there was something I could have done for the poor women. He had no shame shouting at her to hurry up.
Hopefully his own horrible behaviour will bite him on the arse one of these days.

@Tvtvtv your gran is very lucky to have you.

Please feel free to ignore these really intrusive questions, but I was wondering how/if you manage to fit caring for your grandmother around working and, if you have them, looking after your own children? If you don’t work, how do you support yourself? If you don’t have children, do you or your grandmother worry that caring for her will limit your options in them future?

Sorry, I know those are very personal questions. I knew a woman who did something similar (moved in with her grandmother) and I always wondered about these things

I have been thinking about this thread today, particularly people like my elderly relative who don’t have any close family left.

Any system that relies on children caring for the elderly, even simple social care like sorting bills and shopping, would need to make some provision for elderly people who do not, for whatever reason, have close family.

We have a safety net type system to stop babies and children slipping through the net. We would need something similar for adults (and no, adult social services do not provide this, believe me!)

It’s all very well putting plans into place for our old age, but extreme old age nearly always brings with it some element of cognitive decline, the first stage of which seems to be a denial that there is any decline in the first place. What happens when there is no close family to spot this and intervene (often against the relative’s wishes, but in their best interest)?

My own elderly relative is a distant relative who I met just twice as a child and visited socially maybe twice per year after she happened to move a 35 minute drive from my house about 10 years ago. I am now her next of kin with responsibility for maintaining her (neglected) house, hiring and managing carers, cleaners, gardener, doing her shopping, organising and taking her to appointments, booking podiatrist, eye tests, physiotherapist, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention phone calls and visits. I have grown to care for her, and I don’t begrudge her the care. I have benefitted from knowing her. However, the inconvenient truth is that it has had a negative impact on me, my family and my work, not to mention the financial cost. What I do begrudge is that if I don’t do these things they will not get done.

What happens to these people when they have no one to do these things for them? My relative is convinced she can manage and will tell people so, despite the fact that she can’t even get out of bed without help.

superfurrydoggy you are an absolute saint . I hope your relative appreciates everything you are doing.

@superfurrydoggy

I know it’s different kind of situation especially for this generation.

How do I fit in working/supporting myself?

I had to quit my job. Originally I was going to go back to work which my Nan wanted me to as she didn’t want me to give my career. However it was my decision as there was no point paying someone £90 per day when I’d be earning not much more myself. Also it’s difficult as what I’m qualified for usually meant I worked a lot of evenings with the odd weekend plus commute (then we’d have to search for someone fully flexible with daily hours of 7:30 - 6). Ive now gone back to uni to study something I’ve always wanted to get into and I’ve started my own business (currently making nout but I can afford to do this as all my bills are paid for).

As for my own money I get nothing from the state therefore I get ‘pocket money’ plus all bills etc. All big things such as my car/holidays she also offers to pay for. As she says I’m saving her thousands and she’d rather it go to me than a care home. I’m usually fairly skint but I really don’t care for money/material goods.

Do I have children/plans for children?
I don’t currently have children and not on the cards for a couple of years (but don’t tell her that as she’s knitting away and disappointed every time I have a period). Beforehand I was very career driven (which ended up with a lot of burn outs) therefore weren’t on the cards anyway.

I am comfortable bringing a child into this situation. She loves babies/children and I feel like I could handle it - lots of childcare experience so I wouldn’t be going into motherhood blind. However my partner isn’t so keen, he wants us to have time alone before we start our parenting chapter which is very bittersweet but I respect his views.

My Nan is old fashioned and while she did have a career her primary role was home maker/mother/carer/general women duties therefore thinks I’ll be the same. If my Nan never goes into a home I’ll have a very nice five bedroom house in a good area - something I’d be paying off my whole life and unable to buy without her. Not having to pay £1000 mortgage every month will mean that I can follow a vocation in the future/have options to say work part time when I do have children.

It’s not all roses. It can be exhausting, stressful, repetitive but every night she gives me a big hug, thanks me and tell me how much she loves me. This wasn’t a decision for me as I never considered the other. I’m extremely thankful that I get to spend these last few years with the woman I most respect, adore and love when a lot of people never get that opportunity.

What happens is they are stuffed, well and truly. I looked after my my like you are doing and if she didn't have me she's had no one. And I shudder at that. The reality would gave been a very sad and lonely life, with the very minimum of care. It actually makes me terrified to grow old after seeing it close at hand. As mum said, growing old isn't for the faint hearted.

Sorry not my my, my mum

Tvtvtv, that’s made me a bit emotional. You and your nan are amazing women, you’re very lucky to have one another. The apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree. The love just radiates from your words.

Sadly superfurrydoggy IME of working with the vulnerable elderly their health will decline a lot quicker and probably died earlier usually the elderly who do the best are the ones with relatives who take an interest in their care and see them regularly. Also we’ve seen cases of the vulnerable elderly being financially abused by both relatives and people who befriend them.

@Russellbrandshair

I'm an only child too, and my parents are divorced. I don't have to do too much (my DM is in a rest home), but it's hard when there is no-one else.