Having children to take care of you in old age

[ThatsNotMyCherry]

I want to know how to articulate why this is is wrong.

In recent years as her kids have flown the nest my mum has started going on about this a lot. She’s always saying how parents do so much for their children when they’re young so it’s their children’s duty to do the same when they’re old. I think she believes that in every relationship you should get back as much as you put in. She’s been a housewife her whole life and in recent years does a fair bit of care for her own mother. She tells me about people she knows who are unwell but their kids are busy working and raising their own families. Obviously neglecting your parents when they’re old isn’t right but people have their own lives and are entitled to live them. I think part of the problem may be that she’s never had a life outside of caring. When I tell her I don’t expect this from my children and want them to have their own happy, fulfilled lives she says I will only understand when they grow up, leave and then need them.

Someone with advanced dementia being cared for in an ordinary home may require 24/7 2:1 care if using paid carers. People thinking getting in a little bit of help is enough don't know the reality.

I helped look after both of my parents when they got ill,but there is no way on Earth that I want my 5DC to think they ever have to look after me and that won't change as I get older because I'm already very ill and disabled and I don't want them to look after me or help me with things now and that isn't ever going to change.

I think the I looked after you argument when you were a child is a shit argument,as parents we decide to become parents,children don't choose to be born so why the hell should they be expected to look after they're parents when they're older and ill!

Even without dementia my mum wasnt safe to be left alone because she would literally fall over at the drop of a hat, breaking bones, getting bruises, being upset.

She only developed dementia while in hospital.

alsohuman all this was Nov 2018 for me, my headspace still hasnt recovered.

I believe you yolo. I lost mine six months apart in 2015 and I just didn’t know what to do with myself. The silence was deafening. It’s still early for you, I think I’m still processing it.

My MIL started failing from about 85. She has had both a bypass and a valve replacement. She has multiple long term issues with a hernia and arthritis. She also has fractured her hip. We live 60 miles away and both work FT. DH. took a job in her hometown and stayed over from Monday until Friday. She refused carers and cleaners

Then the fall started - we came home from France, we couldn't go away weekends without knowing we could have to return. She refused to mover to our town as she would not see her friends and eventually she allowed carers in.

By this time she was immobile and basically confined to a chair in one room. My DH was doing personal care every night, toileting, washing, dealing with falls. It could not go on. She gave me POA and we eventually managed to persuade her to go into care.

She has thrived there she still sees her friends, but she looks cared for - opticians, chiropodist, hairdresser, etc. Yes she's paying for this using the proceeds of the house sale but she is safe and fed. My DH visits at least 3 times a week, I buy her clothes, deal with pensions and banks and he does the rest of her shopping

We are due to retire and we intend to spend some money rejigging the downstairs layout of our house which will allow ground floor living if necessary. I'm also massively decluttering as clearing her home was an utter nightmare with paperwork stuffed down chairs and so so much stuff. We already live in an area with good public transport and local facilities - if we didn't we would move.

I don't want to live to an age where my life is so restricted but you can't see into the future but you can prepare because I find the older you are the less likely to accept any sort of change. That's why we're doing it now. All our DC know we absolutely do not want them doing any sort of personal care.

Yolo - couldn't agree more.A situation doesn't have to be physically demanding to be stressful.DH and I effectively feel responsible for 3 households currently. With shopping,washing,finances,social services,gp's and calls from the care phone company re falls in just the last week alone for 2 very old relatives who we are next of kin for..Realistically soon both will need more help,of the physical kind,to be arranged by us.We have it easy compared to some carers.But to say it's not demanding as PP did.Hmm ?!

My 97 year old mum with severe dementia was prescribed seven courses of antibiotics in as many months. I had to ask her GP to stop in the end. Pneumonia is no longer allowed to be the old man’s friend, they get taken into hospital and pumped full of antibiotics. Our society is obsessed with length of life, it’s time we got real, accepted we’re not immortal and allow people to die with some dignity

This in spades. Make sure you all make an advanced directive, detailing every small detail of what treatment you want and in what circumstances, and make sure all your children sign it as accepted. 92 year old mum regularly used to get ambulances called for her, she always refuses to be taken in to hospital. The couple of times they insisted, she declined care and checked herself out. It was a ridiculous revolving door. She has bags of medicine she never takes, and is determined to go in her sleep. So, she now does have a very detailed directive, which is no CPR or aggressive treatment, palliative care only.

Bit of a risky strategy isn't it.

What if your kids end up bumping you off for the inheritance 😂

I think the I looked after you argument when you were a child is a shit argument

I do too. Looking after a baby is challenging but it's easy - baby is small, portable and stays where it's put. And you know, unless your child has a disability, that it can only get easier (in many ways - I know teens present their own challenges) - they learn to walk, talk, go to the loo on their own, etc.

Caring for an elderly parent is a very different thing. They are a grown, often very large, adult, and they can only get worse, unless it's a temporary illness you need to care for them through. You need (professional) help for that unless it is just cooking and cleaning/laundry - and even then it's helpful to buy help in so you can enjoy your time with your parents rather than just doing jobs all the time.

I'm late 60s so getting to that age. I don't want my kids to take care of me but in recent years I've been responsible for aged aunt with dementia. She has no children. I have a lasting power of attorney for her and I've had to argue the toss to get help and support for her. I hope my kids would do that for me and I wonder how she would be if I hadn't done it for her.

I can't vote as I feel sort of in the middle.

I remember some years ago Michelle Hanson a Guardian journalist having her dependent elderly mother come live with her and her daughter primarily to avoid having to pay care home fees and so they could inherit her assets when she died.

I wonder if all the parental assets are swallowed up in care home fees people would be more willing to look after their elderly relatives in order to get an inheritance. This may be be more pertinent for our children’s generation with rising house prices.

andromeda the inheritance issue is partly why I would take an early exit if I knew there was a load of shit to come. Life for the young is so hard now, why waste any possible inheritance on me if they can benefit? I mean, clearly, I'm not going to do it today... but if I had a fatal diagnosis, or knew I was going to develop dementia then I'd have a Switzerland in place pdq.

Part of the problem is that the NHS doesn’t treat patients - it treats diseases, injuries or organs - which results in many elderly people having investigations and treatments that will increase their longevity but reduce their quality of life. There’s very little honest conversation between medical teams and elderly people.

My hugely disabled elderly mum was given a pacemaker a couple of years ago because a heart trace showed that her heart slowed at night. Now she will live miserably for far far longer instead of dying peacefully in her sleep. She was given minutes to decide whether to have it fitted

That's shocking carrotvan I agree with you.

I find it rather disturbing to see the comments on how few lovely care homes there are. I don't live in the UK, but in the small town I live in there are several care homes and they all appear to be much the same, with caring staff and lots of activities. My mother, who was adamant she wasn't going into care has been in two (one closed due to not having enough residents to keep going - there are more beds than people needing them at the moment) and is happy and settled. In my country you are allowed to keep quite a reasonable sum of money and the state takes over paying most of the fees - you self fund until you reach that point - and it all seems very fair to me. It seems to be different in the UK, which is unfortunate.

I think the I looked after you argument when you were a child is a shit argument

I agree too. Firstly, most people have kids when they are youngish - 20s-early 40s and have the energy. A 60+ year old caring for an 80+ year old is going to have FAR less energy than someone 30-40 years younger, and probably have some of their own health issues too at that age.

Secondly, you choose to have kids knowing thats the deal. People dont plan or choose to become carers- its foisted upon them at a random point when they might not be ready for it.

Thirdly, looking after a baby/toddler (who is smaller and more portable) is far more doable than hauling a full grown adult out of a bed/chair and getting them into the bath etc

Fourthly- with children, you know the time for nappies/bum wiping has an end- at around age 3-4 they become much more independent. With elderly parents, you could end up wiping their bum for 20+ years so not the same AT ALL. This is all on top of potential cognitive decline, meaning they could also be lashing out physically at you whilst trying to do the above.

Raising a child and caring for an elderly frail relative is not comparable at all in my opinion.

I think parents are entitled in old age/infirmity to care from their children (assuming they were at least averagely good parents).

I say this as someone who provided care for both parents and is now providing care for elderly aunt.

Either you love them (in which case you help) or you don't.

Either you love them (in which case you help) or you don't

So, if parent has dementia, and needs 24/7 round the clock care to be safe and you dont give up your job and move in with them that means you dont "love them"?

Wow.

It seems to be different in the UK, which is unfortunate.

Where do you live? The UK is sadly becoming very much a place of have and have nots.

Oh come on, that’s really twisting her words. She didn’t say that at all.

Oh come on, that’s really twisting her words. She didn’t say that at all

She said "either you love them (and you help) or you dont".

Thats a pretty black and white statement to make and I would imagine, rather hurtful for people who physically cannot help their parents for factors beyond their control.

You put words in her mouth, she said help which you managed to contort into 24 hour care. Why do that?

I’m with your mum. One day, unless you’re incredibly lucky, you’ll need daily care. Nursing homes are depressing and shit and shorten lifespan.

So either younger family will look after you or you’ll be abandoned to an uncaring system.

I absolutely expect my child not to abandon me.

I don't want my kids to have to look after me in my old age.

I also think that in previous eras there were more kids available to provide care (bigger families), and living less geographically diverse lives.

Either you love them (in which case you help) or you don't

Dont agree with this at all. There are lots of reasons why someone might not be able to help- what if they have young children, or a disabled child. Or their parents moved away (like mine did- they chose to move away from me, not the other way around) am I supposed to travel 100 miles to help them when it was their choice to move? or if they work shifts or have health issues? It’s really not as simple as if you love them you’ll help, if you dont you won’t.