Having children to take care of you in old age

[ThatsNotMyCherry]

I want to know how to articulate why this is is wrong.

In recent years as her kids have flown the nest my mum has started going on about this a lot. She’s always saying how parents do so much for their children when they’re young so it’s their children’s duty to do the same when they’re old. I think she believes that in every relationship you should get back as much as you put in. She’s been a housewife her whole life and in recent years does a fair bit of care for her own mother. She tells me about people she knows who are unwell but their kids are busy working and raising their own families. Obviously neglecting your parents when they’re old isn’t right but people have their own lives and are entitled to live them. I think part of the problem may be that she’s never had a life outside of caring. When I tell her I don’t expect this from my children and want them to have their own happy, fulfilled lives she says I will only understand when they grow up, leave and then need them.

They are all affordable. There is no difference in the standard for council run homes (not that there are many now) and private homes. The commissioning is exactly the same

Cherry, you do this all the time and I do understand why because I used to work in the public sector too and, until I came face to face with the reality, I used to believe the official line. I visited care homes I wouldn’t put a dog in. They weren’t “lovely”, they were understaffed shit holes and they cost nearly as much as the nice ones, most of which had waiting lists.

Where I live the local authority struggles to find any places for the people they fund because there are so many self funders they don’t need to take the financial hit of the paltry amount the council deems appropriate. Here the “lovely” homes just aren’t available unless you can pay.

If I am diagnosed with early onset dementia then I'll do it straight away, not wait

Yes- it would have to be immediate. But the problem then is, you dont really have any significant symptoms so you really have to go before you are ready. But anyway, this is the only way Dignitas would ever work with regard to something like dementia. It would have to be done very very quickly.

I don't expect DD to take care of me but it would be nice, especially if something happened to DP.

You know people commonly say they would want to die when they need someone to wipe their bum for them, but change their mind when they actually get there.
Do you really think disabled people who need someone to wipe their bum have no quality of life and should not be alive?
I cared as work for a young woman dying of muscular dystrophy. She said she would want to die when she could not do x, then she would get there and say she would want to die when she cannot do y, etc. Because she found she still had enjoyment out of life.

Also the person who wondered if it was only people who had uneventful lives who clung onto life. Not my experience. My gran who actually had a fairly uneventful life of housewife and raising kids was ready to go. My close friend who died of cancer and always tried to make those most of her life, clung onto life. She valued life very highly and wanted more of it. But even when she was very ill she was going on days out.

@yolofish sorry i was meaning in reference to not being happy with sold kids helping out. Did no one else offer to help so her kids didn't have to be a part of that?

Sil not sold

Alsohuman. I don’t work in the public sector. I don’t like being patronised either.

There are a few shabby care homes, it’s true. However, many are very, very good. I don’t “believe the official line” but know the health and social care sector very well professionally. I don’t know your evidence base but it’s not an accurate reflection of the reality. The areas with highest number of inadequate care homes is Portsmouth- close to where my mother is.

I can reassure you there are mainly good or better homes in the area. In no area are more than 7% of all care homes inadequate (including homes for younger people with learning disability or mental health needs). That’s less than one in ten are poor quality. They vary enormously in what they offer from large hotel type facilities to smaller, more domestic settings.

Personally, I’ve seen many recently because of my mother and the search for the one closest to what she would have wanted.

It’s not about self funders limiting the market. It’s inadequate funding coupled with raised legislative requirements and societal expectations that mean many have gone out of business. There is undoubtedly a shortage but that’s as much about the inadequacy of funding and increased demand as it is about self-funding.
If we want a strong social care system I’m afraid taxes will have to rise to fund it. The Tories aren’t about to do that and we’re losing a massive number of EU care workers shortly.

Actually not quite true. I do get paid from the public purse but I’m not what one would usually consider a public sector employee.

@janemaster, disability and old age aren’t remotely comparable. You’re muddying the waters here because you disagree with the concept of someone choosing to die. We’re not all the same.

Cherry do these great homes have a high turnover of staff?

@Alsohuman I do not disagree with someone choosing to die. I disagree with the idea that because someone needs their bum wiped their life is worthless.
And no comparing old age and disability is not muddying the waters. But a lot of people think old people's lives are not valuable, but would not say the same thing about disabled people.

My grandmother is 90 and my mum is in her mid 60s and in bad health.

My Nan refused to go in a carehome when my grandad passed therefore I’ve stepped up to care for her 24/7. I didn’t want her falling and be laying on the cold floor for 6 hours waiting for an ambulance.

Some days are better than others. I’ve got to learn a lot of skills that will set me up for life. Once I moved in my Nan (of her own doing) wrote her will leaving everything to me. She said she’d rather give the house to me than to a care home.

It’s tiring, if she wants a banana she calls me to get one from the table. If she drops her tissue she’ll call me to pick it up. I cook food like it’s 1950 and I put up with boiled veg. But it’s better than worrying that she’s hungry or being neglected in a home.

She does have Carers 4 times a day but I feel sorry for other old people who have to rely on them. Imagine sitting in your own shit for 4 hours while you wait for someone to help clear you up? Living on microwaveable meals as that’s all they’ve got time to do?

My Nan has requested that she doesn’t go into hospital. She wants to die at home and not spend her final days being poked around. She still has her marbles therefore it’s her decision. She survived the war but is most likely going to pass due to an infection but that’s her choice.

It’s hard. I couldn’t imagine doing this at 60. I’m on the go from 7am until midnight every single day. Funny enough people offer to help but it’s never convenient.

However my grandmother provided a lot of care to me as a child. Was always there whenever we needed her and made my childhood wonderful. How could I turn my back on someone I live more than the world because I fancy going travelling or chasing the next pay cheque.

Our culture is a bit weird in this respect. Plenty of Asian cultures prioritise caring for their elderly relatives.

You sound very selfless @Tvtvtv

Personally I think grandchildren shouldn't provide any care for their elderly gps....It's too much of an ask at what is presumably a young age. On both sides of my family, the gps children took care of them...no one would have ever expected the grandchildren to do a thing.

Cherry my knowledge of the care home sector locally is a combination of working closely with the local authority commissioning manager and having to find the right care home for my parents.

The commissioner here has to commission out of county because only a tiny minority are prepared to accept the level of fees the local authority is prepared to pay. Given that they’re all privately owned businesses, nobody can compel them to. The best have waiting lists of self funders. It’s up to you whether you believe me or not but that’s the reality. And, for the same reason, the bar for Continuing Healthcare Funding is so high virtually nobody reaches it.

I’m sorry you thought I was patronising you, that wasn’t my intention at all.

I disagree with the idea that because someone needs their bum wiped their life is worthless

So do I, my bar is set far higher - or lower - than having your bum wiped. But then you know that and you’re being disingenuous. And conflating old age and disability is muddying the waters.

Killing elderly people so they don’t need to receive care from their families / the state is not the answer. And if it is the cost of that killing should be the entirety of their estate - children should not to be allowed to inherit under these circumstances.

Are you having a laugh? So if my nan is leaving inheritance to me and decides she doesn:t want to go in a cafe home and wants to die, I shouldn't be allowed what she willingly left to me?

At least dogs get put down when they are in too much pain. My grandmother says dogs have more dignity in death than humans.

I absolutely don't expect my children to look after me in my dotage but I will be giving Power of Attorney for both health and finance to my daughter as well as writing an Advanced Care Plan. She knows my wishes and this would ensure they are followed (no treatment if it extends a poor quality of life, DNACPR).
But although she would be involved in my life I definitely don't want her to do any hands on care or be obliged to me in any practical way.

@Alsohuman No I am not being disingenous at all. I simply disagree with you.
My gran got a lot of pleasure out of life when she was in a good care home. Far less when cuts meant it started to go downhill.

@BigTeaCup I am assuming that is suggested so adult children do not persuade an elderly person to kill themselves. Sadly there are adult children who do abuse their elderly vulnerable parents including financially.

My gran got a lot of pleasure out of life when she was in a good care home

And my mum got none because she could only sit and stare into space. Once again, we’re not all the same. What part of that don’t you understand?

I think that as housing costs are so high now that it takes two incomes to run one family women are less available for caring duties, I’m going to have to work for the next 25 years during which my mum will grow into her 80’s and 90’s. I simply won’t be able to care for her if she requires it so she will have to pay for it herself.

In the past families were closer together and didn’t need a second income on the whole so that freed them up to do caring duties.

datasginger

Having seen several people die I couldn't agree more.

I personally want to choose now, how I die if I'm crippled, get dementia etc.
I've also got lots of experience in nursing homes and I would never ever want to enter one.

I would like to think I have a good enough relationship with my dc that they naturally want to pop in on me as I get older but who knows.
Don't rely on anyone and take whatever you get as a bonus.

Plenty of Asian cultures prioritise caring for their elderly relatives
I refer you to previous posts describing the reality of this setup, it might be feasible in a traditional culture where you have extended family networks but this does not line-up with modern technologically advanced societies, personally I prefer life in the modern technologically advanced culture