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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be terrified by the Australian rugby coach setting his family on fire?

482 replies

SeasonallySnowyPeasant · 19/02/2020 11:55

In brief: earlier today an Australian ex-rugby player was in the car with his wife and their three children, poured petrol over her and set her alight. She, he and the children all died. The parents were ending their marriage and disputing custody over the children.

It’s absolutely horrific and I just wonder why there seem to be no depths to which some men - and it almost always is men - will sink when it comes to asserting their dominance over women and children. Throwing acid over them seems to be the newest ‘thing’ over the past 3 years. Assault, rape, stalking, harassment, murder are so common as to be un-newsworthy.

It scares me. My exH was abusive and I have a non-molestation order to prevent him from continuing the abuse. At the back of my mind I worry about him taking something I do/say as pushing him too far and being seriously hurt or killed. What if he decides one day to kill our DC?

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
AngelsSins · 19/02/2020 13:54

you are using it wrong dear

Ok, I don’t even know what point you’re trying to make anymore, so I’ll keep talking about the problem of male violence and you can keep wringing your hands over how we’re not being nice to men.

ShatnersWig · 19/02/2020 13:55

Clymene I think that is also part of the problem in that these men are very, very good at hiding it. I agree that the Harts are doing brilliant stuff but mostly it's the "family friend" or "relative" situation where the abuse is totally and utterly out of the blue and shocks them; they had only ever seen the positive stuff because these bastards are very good and hiding it. And, very often, their wives hide it for fear or worse treatment. It's hard to call these men out if people genuinely have no idea it's going on. If I ever suspected a friend of mine was a controller or abuser, I would unhesitatingly say something.

Original poster
SeasonallySnowyPeasant · 19/02/2020 13:55

Some things that men in general could do:

  • speak positively about women. Don’t engage in or tolerate misogynistic, sexist or objectifying language when men around you are talking about women.
  • when your mate leaves his wife and kids, by all means continue to be friends with him. But don’t nod along and make sympathetic noises when he talks about her likes she’s a psychopath. Ask questions. In the same situation, don’t make it ok for him to complain about paying child maintenance or boast about his non-payment or ability to hide money to minimise payments. Basically, don’t make it socially acceptable for a man to dodge his responsibilities or consider himself as a victim for having them.
  • if a female friend or family member alleges abuse, they’re most likely to be telling the truth. ‘Not wanting to get involved/take sides’ contributes to an environment where abuse is socially acceptable. It is taking sides, on the side of the abuser.
  • if your mate/family member is being an arsehole to or about his wife, girlfriend, partner, mum, sister, children, tell him so. Don’t look away awkwardly and pretend it didn’t happen.

It will take courage from good men to change the environment where women are killed at the rate of 2 a week by their current or former partners.

No apologies for posting this in AIBU. Women are being mutilated and killed. Many more are living in fear. It’s a conversation that needs to happen without the outrage of NAMALT.

OP posts:
JustAnouk · 19/02/2020 13:55

Millions of people get divorced and go through custody disputes and don't kill their family. Incidents like this make the news because they are so dramatic and uncommon. It make it seem like it happens a lot but it doesn't. Statistically it is very very unlikely to happen to you.

Mmm but it works to keep us all in line.

XH wouldn't harm a hair on our children's heads (nor mine) but when we were splitting up I was terrified that he was going to kill them. We weren't even in a residency dispute. So far I think we're doing really well at doing things together with our children and also individually with them, and my fear has dissipated now. But the narrative of "he just snapped" Hmm that we used to hear so often made me terrified that XH would do it too.

swishthecat · 19/02/2020 13:55

ShatnersWig I think that men can help. For example, if you are out with your mates, bring up this case, talk about the terrible statistics that have been quoted. Condemn it. It's quite possible that one of your friends is an abuser.

Men can also do more to make sure they lead by example in teaching any sons they might have to respect women.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 19/02/2020 13:57

It's not just the fact that he killed them. It's the way they were killed. I feel physically sick.

NiteFlights · 19/02/2020 13:59

Could you advise me how I, as a man, can put an end to other men's horrific violence? I'm responsible for myself, I have no control over other men.

Here’s some advice - why don’t YOU think what YOU could do about it instead of washing/wringing your hands about it and niceguying all over the thread? How nice for you that you’ve never heard a misogynistic comment from a friend! Must be nice to be you!

And of course this is a problem of male violence. But boo hoo NAMALT! Yes, nobody has said AMALT. the problem is that huge numbers of them actually are, and nice guys like you do fuck all about it.

HTH.

TheyDoDoThat · 19/02/2020 14:00

Undoubtedly the papers will focus on what DROVE him to do it rather than focus on the abusive murderer who killed his children to punish the woman who dared to leave HIM!

AngelsSins · 19/02/2020 14:00

No apologies for posting this in AIBU. Women are being mutilated and killed. Many more are living in fear. It’s a conversation that needs to happen without the outrage of NAMALT

100% agree. I will never understand why some women are so painfully keen to shut this conversation down.

managedmis · 19/02/2020 14:01

Poor old men, getting it in the teeth again

Clymene · 19/02/2020 14:02

I don't think they are very good at hiding it Shatners. I think it's pretty obvious actually. Like I said, I think most men turn a blind eye. Family annihilators don't just snap out of nowhere - it is an escalation.

managedmis · 19/02/2020 14:02

Undoubtedly the papers will focus on what DROVE him to do it rather than focus on the abusive murderer who killed his children to punish the woman who dared to leave HIM!

^^

Yes. Because HE isn't really responsible, is he? It's her, isn't it?

managedmis · 19/02/2020 14:04

Men couldn't give a shit. ALL men couldn't give a shit, even the supposed 'nice' ones. If they did, they'd do something. But they don't.

CallofDoodee · 19/02/2020 14:06

If you want to generalise and pretend it's a sex/gender issue

Pretend? Are you saying that violence isn't a hugely weighted one way in terms of sex?!

How odd...

AngelsSins · 19/02/2020 14:07

It’s interesting to me that if I post on a female centric forum about this, plenty of women jump in to say not all men and women are just as bad etc. But I’ve had death threats, rape threats, threats of extreme violence and abuse from men on other platforms just for posting some pretty bland views. NEVER, EVER has a man jumped in to defend me/women in general. Never in my life have I heard a man tell another man Not All Women.

FrogsFrogs · 19/02/2020 14:08

I like that quite a few initial posts flagged that men should always always always been given the benefit of the doubt even in a case like this where the woman has jumped out of the car shouting, he poured petrol on me.

Mechanism same as in court for male on female offences where beyond all reasonable doubt is out, and beyond any and all possible doubt no matter how unlikely seems to be the order of the day.

PettyContractor · 19/02/2020 14:08

Yes, let us never forget that it’s men who are are the real victims here. The worst consequences of family annihilation is that it makes men look bad

There are two separate wrongs being talked about here. There's the wrong of killing your family, and then there's the bigotry involved in blaming men, 99.999% of whom feel the same way as you about it.

Wanting to talk about wrong 1 does not entitle you to commit wrong 2 without being told to fuck off. There have been countless threads where people get angry at NAMALT posts, but it's the commission of wrong 2 by the angry people that is the problem, not the response to them. If you don't want to read NAMALT posts, then don't post bollocks that triggers them.

CallofDoodee · 19/02/2020 14:08

10th Rule of Misogyny:

The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

ShatnersWig · 19/02/2020 14:08

nice guys like you do fuck all about it

I've already said if I ever saw or heard anything I would do it. I haven't. So as I can't do anything tangible in my immediate circle, I ask what I could do.

I didn't mean the Facebook status thing to be patronising. People say "condemn it" - if I don't see it in real life, probably because I actually have far more female friends than male ones - how else do I condemn it? Facebook statuses about how appalling it is express solidarity but do they actually have any effect on these bastards who pull this appalling shit? I suspect not, but I asked it because if women who are concerned felt it might help, then I'd do it. I don't have children so can't physically ensure I bring up any sons to behave appropriately. So asking you all what I could do that would really help seems a reasonable question and I'm genuinely sorry that it clearly wasn't.

JosefKeller · 19/02/2020 14:09

100% agree. I will never understand why some women are so painfully keen to shut this conversation down.

it's not shutting the conversation down to stop the hysterical nonsense which is derailing the issue.

that kind of comments: Men couldn't give a shit. ALL men couldn't give a shit, even the supposed 'nice' ones. If they did, they'd do something. But they don't.
How is that helpful?

When you have sons, what do you do? Believe they are evil from birth and need to be medicated or locked up from birth to protect their sisters?
Or are they born like their sisters, but "society" is turning them into murderers and rapists - but that means us their mothers haven't done our job properly?
Does any of these sound reasonable to you, or are you starting to get my point?

Sofonisba · 19/02/2020 14:09

the problem is that huge numbers of them actually are, and nice guys like you do fuck all about it

I agree to some extent, but there is also the fact that many "nice guys" are, by nature, mostly just friends with other nice guys. OP posted a list of things men could do but I don't think my husband is friends with anyone who badmouths their exes or avoids paying child support or anything like that because... why would a nice guy be friends with someone like that?

It seems kind of obvious that the shit men prefer the camaraderie of other shit men and surround themselves with them,

CallofDoodee · 19/02/2020 14:10

Never in my life have I heard a man tell another man Not All Women.

Good point.

AngelsSins · 19/02/2020 14:11

If you don't want to read NAMALT posts, then don't post bollocks that triggers them

That “bollocks” being crime stats and facts on violent crime?!

Valkadin · 19/02/2020 14:11

I know the stats in the UK are three women a week killed by their partners or ex partners. No idea what stats are for men being killed by partners or ex partners in a week. I’m sure some men are lovely and some men suffer but I am totally frustrated by bloody men and handmaidens always having to try and move the conversation away from what people are trying to discuss which is male violence and attitudes overall that perpetuate it. Plus insistent nice guy type men like Corbyn, they may not punch you in the face but they do a disservice to womanhood.

JosefKeller · 19/02/2020 14:13

But I’ve had death threats, rape threats, threats of extreme violence and abuse from men on other platforms just for posting some pretty bland views. NEVER, EVER has a man jumped in to defend me/women in general. Never in my life have I heard a man tell another man Not All Women.

  1. you have NO IDEA if the posters on here are male or female
  2. you should get out more, I have seen plenty of male defending females.

The difference is that I judge individuals, and wouldn't say that ALL men are this and ALL women are that. Because it's bollocks, some people are vile, others are amazing, and the majority is fine but just trying to get on . with their own lives.