To be terrified by the Australian rugby coach setting his family on fire?

[SeasonallySnowyPeasant]

In brief: earlier today an Australian ex-rugby player was in the car with his wife and their three children, poured petrol over her and set her alight. She, he and the children all died. The parents were ending their marriage and disputing custody over the children.

It’s absolutely horrific and I just wonder why there seem to be no depths to which some men - and it almost always is men - will sink when it comes to asserting their dominance over women and children. Throwing acid over them seems to be the newest ‘thing’ over the past 3 years. Assault, rape, stalking, harassment, murder are so common as to be un-newsworthy.

It scares me. My exH was abusive and I have a non-molestation order to prevent him from continuing the abuse. At the back of my mind I worry about him taking something I do/say as pushing him too far and being seriously hurt or killed. What if he decides one day to kill our DC?

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

If all the men that you know are "nice guys", probably some of them aren't.

Yup.

OP, Y-of course-ANBU. I'm sure this thread has illustrated why nothing will ever change.

Some obvious manplaining on this thread.

Ugh. Rather than trying to make this the responsibility of perfectly normal men, how about we expect adult women to take some fucking personal responsibility.

Fuck off with that attitude. Victim blaming at its finest.

I went back to test the hypothesis up there that it took 6 posts to blame all men.

5th reply to the OP (so post 6): Not sure how speculation can be that wrong in this case, really. nope

6th reply to the OP (so post 7): Millions of people get divorced and go through custody disputes and don't kill their family. Incidents like this make the news because they are so dramatic and uncommon. It make it seem like it happens a lot but it doesn't. Statistically it is very very unlikely to happen to you. actually highlights how uncommon it is

4th reply (went back one just to be sure - so 5th post): Family annihilators always seem to follow the same script, don’t they? I understand why it makes you afraid OP. That is a bit neither here nor there but does address the OPs fear.

20th reply to the OP. From one JosefKeller (not sure if M or F) said YAB massively U to generalise to half the population. How rude and offensive to all the hateful "men" who are risking their own lives to save and help others. THE FIRST REPLY to "demonise men" came from someone saying that everyone was demonising ALL MEN but pulling a NAMALT at the same time. Pretty good. Does this kind of move have a name (like Reverse Ferret)? Because if not it should.

NOBODY on this thread is saying "yep, it's all the men all the time". But plenty of NAMALT are claiming that posters are saying just that. Because we live in a post truth society? What is this phenomenon?

As i was proofreading this i came upon the first reply. Post 2. Defended the men because this is "speculation". Interesting: Whilst I agree with you about much of your post this news story is still very recent and a lot of your narrative is, at this stage, pure speculation.^

When you have sons, what do you do? Believe they are evil from birth and need to be medicated or locked up from birth to protect their sisters?

^

I'll be trying to teach my 6 year-old son to be a good man. Hopefully the next generation will have more humility and respect for women.

nice guys like you do fuck all about it Jesus.
@ShatnersWig I am sorry that you received that comment. You are not responsible for what sick individuals do. You publicly condemning them is going to do fuck all. Sadly, there is very very little you can do to stop incidents like this happening again.

It’s awful.

I don’t know what the answer is but it sure as hell isnt NAMALT or saying that “women do it too”

How many of these stories have there been where the primary narrative after the event has been about the poor man, how he adored his family, he must have been desperate, loved them so much he couldn’t bare for them to live without him blah blah

Virtually always proven to be utter bullshit and the “poor man” was nothing but a 2 bit dictator and bully in his own home who his wife and kids were terrified of

That’s what it always is and will be again this time and the umpteen times after this it will happen

It's funny all the so called "nice men" who get bent out of shape about discussions on male violence.

If you don't beat the shit out of your partner, or rape your partner = great, well done you. We're not talking about you.

I mean, I play rugby and am a coach. I don't immediately feel tainted because I share a characteristic with the perpetrator.

It's awful.

These are apparently common factors in cases of familicide...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/anatomy-of-family-murder-killing-spree-home-invasion-a7639966.html

Until the courts and the police take male violence seriously this will keep happening. And there will continue to be mass shootings and terrorism (because nearly all of them have a history of DV).

The problem is that men in positions of power see DV as women being hurt and they don't ultimately care about that. Until they see it as being the main pointer towards indiscriminate mass-scale violence; until they see it as being a threat to them; they're going to continue making excuses and crying NAMALT and letting women and children be killed.

@mickcarter I’m so so sorry that happened to you, it’s heart breaking.

You pretty much never hear of women committing some types of crime, and giants of women forcing boys into prostitution for their own gain tends to be one of them. You never hear of women kid napping young boys and keeping them locked up in basements for 20 years, committing school/mass shootings or rich women exploiting and raping very young, vulnerable men. But some people still think we need to pretend that women do these things too so as not to upset men....

I do agree. Although a local women near me did the same to her kids. It’s not always men.

Men couldn't give a shit. ALL men couldn't give a shit, even the supposed 'nice' ones. If they did, they'd do something. But they don't.

Fuck right off. It’s comments like this that make me defend men.

This thread's so distasteful I'm not even getting involved. So called adults scrapping over who's the baddest baddie like a bunch of little children. and mud slinging.

From what I've seen these cases where people murder their children seem to be pretty much 50/50. But a lot of the cases where mothers are the perpetrator aren't mentioned on here. I don't think there were any posts at all when the woman in Dublin murdered her 3 children and left them for her husband to find.

I have t read about this specific case, but I agree it needs talking about. I also think the NAMALT brigade can piss off.

I know my son and brother, husband and dad aren't like that. Nor are my male colleagues. But men as a class are dangerous to women as a class - I really can't see why that's in any way controversial? The DV and violence stats bear that out.

Yes men are more likely to be victims of violent crime, but in the vast majority of cases they are also the perpetrators. And two women a week killed by patterned or exes. That's why we need to talk about this issue of family annihilation.

(Don't read further if this topic is triggering). I used to work for forensic services and very early in in my job we got the photos from a crime scene where a man had killed his wife and kids with a double barrelled shotgun before killing himself.

He killed the mum first so she couldn't stop him killing the kids (this was in the forensic report - they said generally they do that as a woman will protect her children) before blowing the kids heads off at close range. I can still see those photos now in my head - 20 years or so ago. It was the only case that made me cry in the time I worked there. And although they said he was a 'good man' reading the background the signs were all there. Controlling, jealous, wouldn't let her work, angry that she had the temerity to want to leave him.

I do think men have a responsibility to unequivocally condemn this act and others like it. No excuses, reasons nothing. Just outright condemnation.

Thank you @AngelsSins

MickCarter

Thank you for your post.
I'm so sorry for what all those men did.
And yes, multiple times we see that even when men know there is something not right, something they shouldn't be doing, something illegal, something downright fucking outrageous like what was done to you, they say ok yes fine. I suppose I have to NAMALT but FFS. I have never seen a man step in when something dodgy was happening with a woman or girl. It's always other women. Apparently men don't like to step in because it might be dangerous. Yes ok seems kosher to leave it to women and girls to deal with these men on their own. Or not, as is usually the case.

Most women in an abusive relationship and kids involved fear this happening

I know I did .

I Am relieved she died, as
Living through those burns and the knowledge would truly be a fate worse than death

No words , wish I hadn’t read this actually

But the undeniable thing about NAMALT is that it's true. So when people post wildly inflammatory, hysterical, anti-male bollocks, of course the appropriate response is truth and accuracy, ie that NAMALT. It's not excusing the crime, or any crime against women (or other men). It's simply stating a fact in response to nonsense.

So many threads on MN are derailed by the same one-track-mind posters intent on male-bashing at any opportunity. I've been called a MRA on here for trying to point out how unreasonable they are being and frankly I'm sick of it. It is actually possible to have a discussion about male violence without descending into AMALT, but certain posters seem incapable of this.

*gangs of women

From what I've seen these cases where people murder their children seem to be pretty much 50/50.

That says rather more about your perceptions that the reality of the situation. In fact, its more like 83% male /17% female.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23686913

Recently a man at work told me he was in s bar and a man in his extended group was sexually assaulting women.

He said it was terrible. I think he wanted brownie points for noticing and saying it was bad.

I said, what did you do?

He looked totally baffled.

He is a 'nice guy'.

Vast majority of men see it as women's problem, nothing to do with them. As is demonstrated on this thread quite nicely as well.

But the undeniable thing about NAMALT is that it's true

It is trite and unnecessary. The whole point of discussion about men as a class is that takes into consideration those who don't display certain behaviours but still share certain characteristics.

IMO the sign of a truly decent man, is one who will acknowledge the above.

Brefugee I think that Batshit was probably referring to this one:

Men.
Humanity's Achilles heel, unfortunately.

Regardless, very pleased to see MNHQ delete Batshit's victim blaming comment pretty damn sharpish.

But the undeniable thing about NAMALT is that it's true. So when people post wildly inflammatory, hysterical, anti-male bollocks, of course the appropriate response is truth and accuracy, ie that NAMALT. It's not excusing the crime, or any crime against women (or other men). It's simply stating a fact in response to nonsense

No, the point is WE KNOW. We all know men that we trust or like or think are nice. WE FUCKING KNOW ITS NOT ALL MEN, no one has said it is.

inflammatory, hysterical, anti-male bollocks = pointing out that males, as a sex class, are more likely to commit violent crime than women. Such bigotry.