"Well I make 100% of the money"

[sandscript]

Who is BU?

I'm a happy SAHM but this weekend, with storm Dennis, we were stuck indoors with baby and toddler DD.

DH stayed in bed till 2.30pm on Saturday and we had a big row about it. Sunday was much the same, and when we were arguing I said I do 100% of the childcare and need a break or at least some help from time to time. His reply "well I make 100% of the money".

This comment is still really bugging me. I feel like I should get a job just to shut him up and he'll have to do 50% of childcare which he definitely won't.

To be clear I have never said I was a stay at home parent. What I said was I felt I've looked after my children long enough to make a decision that I feel it's not work. In my head if you can be a sahp for a year, which I know lots of people do, then that's the same length of time as maternity leave. So in that year, which is a bloody long time, you do get to do all the childcare, all the chores, everything exactly the same as a sahp. You are experiencing the same daily routine. The only difference that pumper seems to come up with as to why it's different, is that you get paid for part of it, and you apparently get to go and sit at groups and toddler and baby session. Apparently sahps dont do this.
I get that pumper will not change her view on this and Ito be fair, I'm unlikely to change mine, but where Pumper let herself down badly was where she started intimating I'm a bad mother and dont want to spend time with my children. That was pretty poor and she lost all credibility in my view by saying nasty little comments about me outsourcing childcare because I didnt want to do it and such like. We all make our choices in life,and I had to go to work.

"Oh god, I’m starting to feel sorry for you. You’re so desperate for an argument, and you can’t format to save your life. Why is this so important to you, do you think? Are you feeling guilty that you didn’t spend enough time with your kids? They won’t care, you had 100% childcare for them remember? You spend sixwholeweeks a year with them! Plenty of time to understand what it’s like to be around them for the other forty six!Andyou’ve got a job, which would be doing them a disservice otherwise, as you said."

This is one of the comments from Pumper which I feel was pretty poor. I'd happened to mention early on in the thread that I felt my childcare was 100% perfect and she'd obviously took umbridge with that for some unknown reason. I was answering all her questions as she commented to me and as a result she commented that I was feeling guilty at not spending enough time with my kids!!!

So did you call yourself a SAHP when you were on mat leave Tabby? If you really can’t see the difference?

You’ve never been the sole childcare provider for your children. You have no idea whether you’d consider it work or not. Every post you write is ‘I enjoy hanging out with my kids for the six weeks out of the year I do it’ - you have no idea what being a SAHP is like.

"So did you call yourself a SAHP when you were on mat leaveTabby? If you really can’t see the difference?"
Oh my god, I must have answered this question to you at least 40 trillion times. I've even just stated above "to be clear I have never called myself a sahp". Did you not see this, or understand what it meant? I cant see that I have not been absolutely clear on this.

So logically, you don’t see mat leave as the same as being a SAHP.

"You’ve never been the sole childcare provider for your children. You have no idea whether you’d consider it work or not. Every post you write is ‘I enjoy hanging out with my kids for the six weeks out of the year I do it’ - you have no idea what being a SAHP is like."
Yes I have. What an absolutely atrocious comment to make. I was the sole provider of childcare whilst on mat leave, several times, which amounts to a bloody long time, sole provider for many many weekends when my partner was at work and I've been sole provider of every fucking thing since he had a brain injury. Where do you get off on this? Constantly asking the same question over and over? And not taking on board the answer. And I have never once quoted "I enjoy hanging our with my kids for 6 weeks of the year"! That's so bad to say that. What I have said is that I dont consider looking after my children as work. You do, fine!!!

You have literally just said that mat leave is not being a SAHP.

For the last three months of maternity leave, I was unpaid. I spent five days a week in sole charge of my daughter, was bored titless most of the time and found it very lonely. I also didn't like relying on someone else for my income. Hence, I went back to work. But I think it actually did give me a pretty decent idea of the life of a SAHM of a one year old.

"So logically, you don’t see mat leave as the same as being a SAHP."

Are you trying to words into my mouth now? No I dont think logically I dont see mat leave as the same as a sahm. Logically, I think if mat leave is for a year, and sahm can be for a year, and they are doing the same thing, same responsibilities for the children, day in and day out, it's pretty similar. I'm not going to waiver on this and I dont intend to argue with you on this. You think its miles apart, fine. I dont.

Exactly! So logically, you’ve never been a SAHP, so you have no idea what it’s like or if you’d consider it work. You’ve only been on mat leave, which you say yourself is not the same thing.

"You have literally just said that mat leave is not being a SAhp."

Err no, I havent. Please can you explain your reasoning.

You didn’t consider yourself a SAHP when you were on mat leave. You said:

No I dont think logically I dont see mat leave as the same as a sahm

That’s where I got this idea that you didn’t think mat leave was the same as being a SAHP. Because you don’t. Are you genuinely struggling with this logic?

"Exactly! So logically, you’ve never been a SAHP, so you have no idea what it’s like or if you’d consider it work. You’ve only been on mat lea"

No I dont agree. I've said I never called myself a sahp. Why do you not think as an adult I'm entitled to make my own assumptions or decisions? This is what you need to take in here.....
I feel, as a grown adult, having spent years of my life bringing up children, that I feel its not work.
Please take on board that other people do not think the same as you. For instance, I dont think that to be a sahm, you have to have done it for years, or are doing it permanently. I dont think you are not a sahp is your child is at school.

What happens after mat leave then that is so unique to SAHPs that no one else can even imagine what it might be like, despite having done it for a year? Genuinely curious. The child will be older, but you do spend more time with them than at work so you likely have a pretty good idea at what they would be like if you were there all the time. I don't really care, but it seems a weird argument to be having.

"You didn’t consider yourself a SAHP when you were on mat leave. You said:

No I dont think logically I dont see mat leave as the same as a sahm"

I've told you multiple times now that I've never said I was a sahm. You dont have to used the phrase "stay at home" to know what it is like to look after your children long term.

This means

Are you back to me not pointing out every single possible definition for being a SAHP? Seriously?

Tabby, genuinely, I’m sorry that I’ve got into this with you. This seems to be a real issue for you and you’re so desperate for an argument that you can’t even follow your own logic. Probably best we leave it there, I’m honestly a bit worried that it’s too big a deal for you, it really doesn’t matter. Your kids won’t care, you do the best for your family, we all do.

If someone is on ML, of course, they are the sole care provider. Not like both parents are sitting around for the duration supporting each other. The other parent is either at work or not in the babies life for whatever reason.
The person on ML is doing exactly the same as the sahp parent. Not many people on ml hire nannies or whatever. Nor are they going to work and paying for childcare. They do what every other mother does globally until the partner comes in from work, and then it all becomes both their responsibility to do.

The only sahp who are doing 💯 of everything are single parents and the other parent is no longer in their lives.

Pumper your arguments make no sense and you don't seen to actually be reading what Tabby is responding. I think you're right to leave it there but I don't think Tabby is the one with issues.

I think this has gotten severely derailed but I'll throw my 2 cents in.

When I was off on mat leave with my first, it was a break from work, dedicated to bonding with my baby with an end date in sight so my attitude was different in that I have to make the most of this as the return to work was always looming.
However, when it was over I knew I was going back to my job, in the same position, with the same opportunities.

Fast forward to now when I'm a SAHP, there is no end date in sight. Its never ending. It goes on so long that it's impossible to keep up that enthusiasm of "make the most of every second." Theres also the thought of being financially dependent on someone else, and knowing that once you finally do return to the workplace your old job isnt nicely waiting for you, not only have you lost out on all the opportunities for advancement while you've been away, it's also quite likely that you'll be starting a few steps behind where you were before.

Plus you are less judged while on mat leave than you are as a SAH.

So while the responsibility and care may be the same, there is a definite difference in the mentality it takes. And I'm sorry, but I find it offensive to be told what I do isnt work, especially from someone who has not had to do it (and in my case, I have HAD to do it, i no longer have the luxury of choosing to go to work).

That being said, this tit for tat debate and pedantic bickering over what constitutes staying at home and what doesn't is just getting silly. As I have said before, i have worked full time (both while my husband was working and also while he was the SAH), part time, had two lots of mat leave and also been SAH. They are all hard in their own ways, and they are ALL work. At the end of the day, all any of us can do is our best depending on our individual circumstances. But that does not give any of us the right to belittle anyone else's choices and parenting.

That goes for WOTHs saying the SAHs dont work, and for the SAHs saying that WOTHs would rather pay someone else to raise their kids.

WOTH may see me as privileged to be spending all my time with my kids, but equally I see WOTH as privileged to be able to have a life and identity outside of their family.

There are no perfect parents, we all have struggles. We should be supporting each other instead of this tit for tat nonsense and getting digs in and belittling each other.

@Oxfordnono12
If you read Tabbys posts you would also have noticed that she is a carer for her dh as well and he cannot provide any support due to an injury.

I don't see housework as work, just shit that needs doing. Same with making appointments. It's just shit that needs doing. And regardless of whether you are a sahp or not, this crap still needs doing. When I was working, I found appointments really hard work due to trying to get time off etc. Being at home all day I found this a piece of piss as I didn't require time off. Appointments weren't something I could magic over to whoever was looking after my children. Or send someone in my place for my own appointments.

And I don't consider parenting my children as work either. As their parent it is my obligation to ensure their needs are met.

My god there is some hard of thinking people on here,

@Oxfordnono12.

What a nasty small minded person you are

And it's post like @Oxfordnono12 why many mums on ML say they are sahm
Big cheer, you have a partner that can financially support everyone to allow you the choice of staying at home.
Wonder if you would be so nasty to someone who has to work if you were forced into this position yourself. And remember, you never know what tomorrow brings, so don't get too comfy in thinking this would never happen to you.

I feel sorry for you! You childminder is cuddling your child if she/he falls and hurts themselves, your minder sees your child grow an develop more so than you.

I should hope the childminder does comfort them if they hurt themselves, and I hope they do notice and encourage their development. Oh or was that meant to make her feel guilty? Not everyone is so insecure as to believe that their precious bond is broken by their child being in a safe, creative, nurturing environment with other children; or that just by default their child is better off with them even if that would mean sitting in front of the telly all day because they couldn't afford to do anything else without going back to work. Shock, horror, some women (women are not just mums) CHOOSE to go back to work, others have no choice. You probably expect people to respect your decisions, but you evidently don't respect those who place their children in childcare. FWIW Tabby said that she doesn't believe looking after your own children in her mind is classed as work, not that it isnt challenging or hard work, just the terminology of work doesn't feel appropriate.

Oh dear, @Oxfordnono12. I feel very sorry for you.