Gender "disappointment"

[minesadecaf]

Is that even the correct word? Aibu to not understand this?

My friend gave birth to a beautiful healthy son a few days ago. This is her dc2, a second boy. She didn't find out the sex during her pregnancy for the reason that she'd be disappointed to be told if it was a boy and would rather hold on for a surprise in "the hope" of the baby being a girl.

Now he's here and he's amazing! Friend is happy he's healthy of course but she's noticeably upset/gutted (not sure which if either is correct way of describing her emotions but I hope it's clear enough) that she hasn't had a little girl. Frankly, I just can't understand it so how can I "comfort" her? I want to send a congratulations card but all the "it's a boy!" messages seem weirdly inappropriate. I'm out of my depth here.

Now I should add that I'm a mother of two girls whom obviously I adore but still, I just can't imagine being despondent about not having "the right one".

Aibu??

That's the thing though.cant (collective you) can't guarantee you'll get the gender you want. No one the good Lord included promised her that shed have a baby girl. It's had to be because she wAnted a baby not because she wAnted a daughter.
And yes She m ay not have put it very nicely and of course her infertility isn't the fault of your friend but I c an see where January is coming from.

I think part of it is because people say shit like 'A son is a son until he takes a wife, a daughter is a daughter for life'.

Oh god yes! I hate stuff like that. Usually said by smug older women who have lovely close relationships with their adult daughters.

Is she really ‘gutted’ that she didn’t have a girl or is she just exhausted and suffering post natal depressing after having a baby?

In my mind the women who want girls so thay they can be "super girly" together are just reinforcing daft stereotypes.
That said, your friends hormones will be all over the place so I'd cut her some slack and just carry on positively reinforcing how lucky she is to have a beautiful new baby.

Such a shame on here that everytime gender disappoinment people try to gatekeep the issue. Calling other women who are a few days post partum, or even generally 'silly bitches' is very unpleasant.

Odd that people can't comprehend that not everyones lives are the same, that they make be other emotions or difficulties at play or just that others are allowed to be upset about things you don't agree they can be . Obviously they are as it's very common, and quite obviously we don't make the rules for other people regardless so surely keeping quiet is better if you're not actually answering the OP and just want to pop up to comment on how much of an ungrateful dick her friend is.

And since some seem to think you are only allowed to have certain feelings if you have infertility issues- I do- insurmountable ones but I don't think at all badly of someones gender disappointment- their experience is valid, it must be very hard, everything is relative and frankly- by the same logic that dictates by some posters that women who don't have infertility issues can never know- if we haven't experienced gender disappointment at a birth then how on earth would we know.

OP I do think you're maybe overthinking ot though, just be kind, send a card, see how she gets on. It sounds like quite a big deal for her so there must be something more to it. I'd just do the usual things and check in to make sure she's ok or suggest she chat with someone if it doesn't alleviate a bit or if it seems to be affecting her bonding etc.

Your friends just had a baby, shes disapointed and youve come on mumsnet to essentially slag her off...... not really a friend are you?

I agree that the OP is mostly here for the pile on.

How nice if you January

Said by someone who sounds like they haven't experienced the pain of infertility.

You are incorrect in that assumption.

I’ve had fertility issues, and I can understand those who have gender disappointment. Go me!

I think a lot of posters on this thread are being totally unreasonable and projecting, to be honest.

Yes, if someone is disappointed in the 'gender' of their healthy baby, it can be hard to understand if you have struggled with conception. However, everyone deals with things differently. It would be akin to me being disappointed I didn't get a job promotion, yet someone telling me I'm totally unreasonable because at least I have a job unlike them. I'd still be allowed to feel upset for a day or two. Life isn't about who is the biggest victim.

Your friend will be fine in a day or two. It's exactly why I found out what my babies are because although I'd obviously be happy regardless, I did have a marginal preference for a girl both times. I ended up getting what I 'wanted' but if I hadn't, it would have took me a week to gather my thoughts and refocus.

The days and weeks after giving birth are such a whirlwind, so just be supportive. I'm certain that her disappointment will quickly be overshadowed by night wakings and nappies. It'll all be fine

I've said this before on other threads, but I give "gender disppointment" short shrift and I'm not ashamed to say it. Sure, psychological problems, sure we want what we want, but I'm sorry. No. People who "suffer" from it need to spend 10 minutes on the Infertility boards

Totally agree! Its completely natural to want a specific gender but to actually be crying or devastated that you have a healthy baby who just happens to be the gender you didnt want? sorry, no sympathy for that. Plenty of people struggle to conceive and plenty of people have babies with health issues- be grateful you have a healthy beautiful baby.

Also, I dont understand all these idealised "I want a daughter because I want the same relationship I had with my mum"- that wont happen because the child is an entirely different person to your mother and the dynamic will be different. It worries me what these people will do if their daughter doesnt grow up to fit into the exact mould they have been imagining them to for years and years- what then? having rigid expectations on your children is not healthy and they are their own individual people with their own individual thoughts and ideas. Just because you have a daughter doesnt mean she will grow up to be the person you imagine her to be in your head.

Surely the only reason most of us have children is because we have some cosy fictional dream in our head of what it will be like to be a parent? If that dream has always been for one sex or the other then of course it's hard at first to grasp a different future from the imaginary one we've held onto.

I'm very sorry so many of you have experienced the heartache of infertility and I can't imagine how that may skew your view of this situation, but the threats of violence and abuse towards op friend are uncalled for.

Plus the first few days after birth hormone are all over the place and I remember being a bit manic and weepy about everything, cut her some slack, if she's still down about it in a month support her to talk to someone about how she's feeling as she may be more prone to PND.

I knew this would be about someone having a 2nd/subsequent son. Boys are really seen as second best by some people. And I think that doesn't help people like your friend. I have 2 sons and throughout my 2nd pregnancy people were saying "are you hoping for a wee girl this time?" or "be nice to have a girl" and tbh I do feel some people see my family as "second best" to ones with "one of each". My dad's partner even said to me, after I'd had my 2nd boy, "I'm so glad my daughter had a girl for her 2nd, I feel so sorry for women without daughters". She's not worth worrying about but definitely sees me as a lower class of mother than those with girls.

Usually said by smug older women who have lovely close relationships with their adult daughters
So true.

I don't think it's really fair to bring infertility into it, rings similar to me those who scold a pregnant woman for ever complaining of pregnancy illness because they're fortune enough to be pregnant.. It's all relative!

I personally longed for a girl when I was pregnant with DC1, and when I was pregnant I didn't find out the gender, but I was 100% convinced it was a girl.. Low and behold I had a little boy. It soon wore off but I could have originally been described as seeming disappointed, whereas in reality I was just SO shocked that the baby I had convinced myself was a little girl, was in fact a little boy. So maybe for your friend it could be a case of this?
I also understand as PP have said it could be for some other reason all together. Over all I just wouldn't give it too much thought, and just congratulate your friend on her new arrival

funinthesun19
Either mums of adult daughters where they have a close, almost friend-like relationship, or mums of adult sons who've decided to cut the apron strings and they're bitter and annoyed that he has a partner in his life and won't play the mummy's boy role.

It's always sons that mums seem to be disappointed by.

I dont understand

Yes that is very apparent.

"Gender disappointment" is a common emanation of peri/post natal anxiety and depression.

If a friend of mine was showing this after birth my immediate reaction would be to wonder if she was inline for a bout of PND not run to a public forum for a quick snark about my "friend" to whip up the "how dare she complain, I had it worse" brigade.

I think part of it is because people say shit like 'A son is a son until he takes a wife, a daughter is a daughter for life'.

Exactly, and I think that because of shit like this people (I hope subconsciously) treat their children with the expectation that the son will go off and the daughter will remain.

Also, it's sex we're talking about here not gender. This instance that girls are pretty and feminine and will go on spa days and bra shopping while boys will disappear and never see their mothers again once they find a wife is forcing the outdated stereotypes of gender on children who are then made to feel bad because they don't have the right genitals.

No baby asked to be born, as parents you have made the decision to bring the into the world and no one should be doing that unless they are prepared to accept the child whether they are male or female. How does someone so fixated on a penis or vagina expect to cope if a baby is born with a disability?

'I kind of had the reverse of this in that when I was, surprisingly and delightedly, having my 3rd baby aged 44 (having had 2 healthy daughters and 6 pregnancy losses) I was slightly upset when so many people (including medical professionals) made a big deal about me having a boy at last.'

Same with me, with the sexes reversed. Two lovely sons, a total of 6 miscarriages and then some time without conceiving, then a very surprising daughter. The number of people who were delighted about her in a way they wouldn't have been had she been another boy, or who even assumed I had kept trying until I had 'got my girl' ('ah, a little girl at last!', that sort of thing).

I do sometimes think how strange it is that she was a girl - I obviously didn't even think of the sex until it was obvious she was staying, and although I hadn't had a gut feeling as I had had with my sons, I was then fairly sure she'd be a boy. And it is wonderful to have her, she's imaginative, quirky, bossy (especially towards her brothers, who adore her). But - looking at how different in personality all my children are - there is nothing about her that is about her Being A Girl.

I required fertility treatment to have both my children. I also had 2 miscarriages including one at at 17 weeks and I still e experienced gender disappointment.

No amount of slaps or anger or judgement would have changed that. You can't help how you feel.

Sorry you are struggling to empathise with your friend but just congratulate her and keep your opinions to yourself.

I think that sometimes it's because of the stereotyping of gender roles. We have 2 DDs. I've had other mums asking me, 'Wouldn't (DH's name) like to have a boy to play trains with?' When the reality is that the last thing my DH has ever wanted is a third child. We have 6 DNephews and our DDs love going on steam trains. Plus, DD2 (7) is a budding engineer like her dad.

It's even more ridiculous for these mum friends to say this in our case, as our DDs are adopted. I can easily imagine the response of our adoption social worker if we were to say that the reason we wanted a third child was so that my DH could have a DS to 'play trains' with.

I did turn out to be infertile but I can still understand the OP's friend's disappointment. I know that my MIL was disappointed not to have had a DD (she's tried to make me the daughter she didn't have, and probably my SIL too). The friend is allowed to have her feelings, as long as it doesn't turn into resentment of the younger DS for not being a girl.

Boys are really seen as second best by some people

Yeah, I really dont understand this at all- my dad had a close relationship with his mum and looked after her until she died. The idea that boys will just abandon you is not true- it depends on the person, plenty of girls do that too.

I remember when we registered my son's birth at the town hall and we were talking about this very subject and the registrar said "ive been doing this job for 25 years. Consistently, the most grief I tend to see is from men who have lost their mothers" (registering the death etc) . I thought that was interesting.

@Appletreehouse
Exellent point made! I sometimes wonder how many would make the decision to become parents at all, if they knew they realities opposed to the cosy fictional dream

Totally agree! Its completely natural to want a specific gender but to actually be crying or devastated that you have a healthy baby who just happens to be the gender you didnt want? sorry, no sympathy for that. Plenty of people struggle to conceive and plenty of people have babies with health issues- be grateful you have a healthy beautiful baby.

You really don’t understand the issue at all do you.

@MimiLaRue

It's very good saying that, but in my experience, being post partum means logic goes out the window.

You're typically exhausted, sore, and bleeding. You're stuck on a ward with loud babies and their parents. You have minimal privacy. Midwives are too busy to help. Your baby might not settle easily.

I don't think we can blame anyone for being emotional over anything after birth. I cried after the dinner lady didn't offer me the pasta bake but offered the next woman. Where was my logic? I should have just asked for it, but I was emotionally and physically shattered. Should I have just been happy I had food to eat?

I'd say it's a similar story here. OP's friend will likely be fine in a week or two, if PND doesn't come into play. But we shouldn't be kicking mothers while they're down- birth is hard for a lot of us.

'If a friend of mine was showing this after birth my immediate reaction would be to wonder if she was inline for a bout of PND not run to a public forum for a quick snark about my "friend" to whip up the "how dare she complain, I had it worse" brigade.'

But OP says she was like this throughout the pregnancy (and even chose not to find out the sex to avoid the disappointment then). It's not suddenly descended on her. Of course, it's possible that she has had ante-partum depression all the time, but one would hope it would have been picked up on by someone.

It is OK for her to feel as she does. But it's also OK for the OP to feel she can't understand and to perhaps not be first in line to pour out sympathy. I can tell you that I'd be the wrong audience for something like this. I know the sex of one of my miscarried babies (rare chromosome disorder). Boy. Having three living boys would have seemed like the best thing ever.

It doesn't matter whether you understand it. I don't understand peoples' various reasons for being depressed but it's not for me to conclude how they should feel.

I understand the sentiment behind your post, but YABU to compare Depression to what the OP's friend is currently experiencing.

Depression is an illness, a legitimate medical issue. "Gender Disappointment" is not. The term was coined by mummy-bloggers and parenting forums. Being disappointed is just a completely normal part of life for everyone! Disappointment is a normal, natural human emotion and OP's friend doesn't need to be treated like she's "suffering with" a condition.

She's just upset because she didn't get something she wanted. As with any other disappointing experience (related to your career or the failure of a relationship for example) she can either give in to it and wallow, or she can choose to focus on the positives and try to move past it.

I can understand your friend to some extent. It’s easy to have an idea of your ideal family in your mind, what ever mix of genders that means, and so it must take some getting used to when it doesn’t pan out as you’d hoped. Of course she’s lucky to have two healthy children, which obviously a lots of people struggling fertility would give anything for, but she is allowed to feel the way she feels.

My friend had three boys and she was bitterly disappointed when number three she went her longed for girl, as she knew she wouldn’t have another and therefore would never get to experience the whole mother daughter thing. She is still not completely over it now and her youngest is 10!

I have two dds, which I’m very happy about. I always wanted at least one daughter, I think it was because my relationship with my own mother was so bad and I wanted to have the bond I felt I’d missed out on with my mother with my own daughter. I may have been disappointed to have had two sons as I only planned on having two children, I’m sure I would have loved the equally to my daughters, but I think the would have always been an element of what if.

I’ve never thought I’d ever want a son until recently. All dd1s friends are growing into such nice young men that I kind of feel I’m missing out a bit on not having a teenage son.

I’m sure OPs friend will get over it, and she’ll love her son like nothing else, but I can see why she feels like she does.