Gender "disappointment"

[minesadecaf]

Is that even the correct word? Aibu to not understand this?

My friend gave birth to a beautiful healthy son a few days ago. This is her dc2, a second boy. She didn't find out the sex during her pregnancy for the reason that she'd be disappointed to be told if it was a boy and would rather hold on for a surprise in "the hope" of the baby being a girl.

Now he's here and he's amazing! Friend is happy he's healthy of course but she's noticeably upset/gutted (not sure which if either is correct way of describing her emotions but I hope it's clear enough) that she hasn't had a little girl. Frankly, I just can't understand it so how can I "comfort" her? I want to send a congratulations card but all the "it's a boy!" messages seem weirdly inappropriate. I'm out of my depth here.

Now I should add that I'm a mother of two girls whom obviously I adore but still, I just can't imagine being despondent about not having "the right one".

Aibu??

How nice if you January

Said by someone who sounds like they haven't experienced the pain of infertility....

I would send a normal card and gifts. She probably just needs a little time to adjust and regardless of what MN would often have you believe, lots of parents need that adjustment time one way or the other. Then even if you get the sex preferred, it might not be the personality hoped for anyway!

Just because a lot of people don't understand "gender disappointment" doesn't make it less of a problem for her. Similarly, other peoples fertility struggles are not the fault of the lady either- I say this as someone who has had their own fertility problems.
People are only human and cannot help the way they feel. You can't tell someone to feel a different way. That simply isn't how it works. I feel real compassion for a woman who has just had a beautiful healthy baby, who she no doubt loves, but feels a bit sad for what she could have had. She must be feeling all kinds of emotions, especially guilt.

I'm afraid I'm with Bezalelle. And as for the 'one of each' nonsense, children are human beings and not pick-and-mix.

I find gender 'disappointment' (particularly when it's over wanting a child of the same sex, as often happens with women wanting girls and probably men wanting boys) rather narcissistic - about imagining a mini-me (exactly the 'hair and make up and bra shopping and wedding dress shopping etc' stuff cited by a PP - with no regard to what the fictional girl might have been like as an individual) or (in the case of wanting a girl) a child they think will be 'close to'/there for them, which they'd be prepared to accept not being the case in a boy, due to traditional ideas of sex roles. Everyone has narcissistic tendencies, but I don't think we should be indulging them in ourselves or others, especially where they relate to children.

As for being 'allowed' to express these feelings - of course they are allowed, but they should pick their audience very carefully and shouldn't be surprised or hurt if the response is more puzzlement than gushing sympathy.

Before you even posted this you knew what sort of responce you were going to get, theres been a few gender disapointment threads latelty

Your friends just had a baby, shes disapointed and youve come on mumsnet to essentially slag her off...... not really a friend are you?

Even women who have suffered loss or fertility problems and had huge struggles to finally get pregnant can then have gender disappointment.

I must say though, often women who are open about how desperately they want a daughter seem to base this on some very set ideas about what having a daughter is like- spa days, shopping trips, choosing a wedding dress and so on. I think having such set ideas will line them up for real ‘gender disappointment’ even if they do get a daughter.

the loss of a fictional daughter - she knew she’d never have one and the thought of never doing hair and make up and bra shopping and wedding dress shopping etc was sad for her.

Even if you have a daughter you might never get that! I always feel like the women who feel this disappointed are the ones who will enforce strict gender roles on their kids. I am a daughter. I'm very close to my mum but I've never done any of those things with her. I didn't go wedding dress shopping, I don't like spas, I don't wear much makeup or nail polish and neither does she!

I had a friend who knew her last pregnancy was her last one. She had another boy and although loves and adores him, at first she was grieving the loss of a fictional daughter - she knew she’d never have one and the thought of never doing hair and make up and bra shopping and wedding dress shopping etc was sad for her.

But there's no guarantee that a daughter would be interested in these things - it’s such stereotypical thinking.

We struggled with years of infertility and I still have compassion and empathy for people who experience disappointment about the sex of their baby. It's a real thing and there are all sorts of reasons behind it - I am very lucky to have DS now but I know I would have struggled if he was a girl because of my own complex relationship with my mum.

When I was born, a second girl, my mum cried for days. My dad was an only child and hated it, he always said he wanted 4 children. My mum hated being pregnant so she thought if she had a boy she'd have more of an argument for sticking at two. As it happened they stuck to two anyway and neither had regrets. It isn't always clear why someone is disappointed, you have no idea what is happening in the background, so best not to have an opinion on someone else's life.

We laugh about her crying and always have, I'm in my 50's now and have never felt anything but total love from both parents.

She is entitled to feel how she feels. I'm one of those people who are dealing with infertility due to my endometriosis however just because I'm dealing with that doesn't meant that other people aren't entitled to their own feelings.

@LaurieMarlow In hindsight, you’re right, I know it’s not that easy for some people to have a baby. I was extremely lucky and sometimes forget this. All I meant was, if it’s that important to her to have a girl, she has the option to try to have another baby in the future (circumstances permitting). Although, as I said after, choosing to try for another just because you want the other gender doesn’t seem like the right reason imho.

I so much agree with what Bezalelle says. In particular the bit about it being caused in part by making gender difference such an issue.

I kind of had the reverse of this in that when I was, surprisingly and delightedly, having my 3rd baby aged 44 (having had 2 healthy daughters and 6 pregnancy losses) I was slightly upset when so many people (including medical professionals) made a big deal about me having a boy at last. And in particular how nice it would be for my husband. We were both delighted to be having another baby. We were bowled over by our good fortune. Neither of us had any sort of preference at all as to whether the baby was a boy or a girl. DD2 was just off 7 when DS was born. I do think his being a boy made it slightly easier for her to accept no longer being the baby (when she had come to expect that to continue). But we truly, as parents, had no preference at all.

I don’t think it’s silly at all. Do you remember what your emotions were like in the hours and days following giving birth? I was all over the place! She will be absolutely fine in time but you don’t need to understand it, or comfort her, just let her mourn her non existent daughter for a short time.

Your friend needs to read the thread on here yesterday that was started by a woman who had reached out because her baby died aged 19 hours

Congratulate her and keep being positive around her. If you look disappointed for her she will think everyone is disappointed about her having a boy and that will not help her.
She needs people to say things like how amazing having 2 boys is.

If she is feeling disappointed about not having a girl, trust me the above will help her come round. When I had my third child who was my third boy, I did feel those pangs of disappointment and I felt so guilty for feeling that way. The last thing I needed was people indulging me in those feelings, saying how they felt sorry for me that I didn’t have a girl or not making a fuss of ds3 as if he wasn’t as special.

I loved ds3 from the moment I saw him and never loved him any less. He’s his own person and I couldn’t imagine life without him. Your friend will be the same.

My 4th child is a girl. To this day I still don’t know how I managed to have a girl after having 3 boys!

I think part of it is because people say shit like 'A son is a son until he takes a wife, a daughter is a daughter for life'. Or if a woman is close to her own mum, she feels like she wont have that with her own kids. I have two girls. I always imagined having a boy. I'm gutted I wont have a son but only superficially. I love my dds more than life itself and I dont wish either one was male. I just wish I had a son as well. Your friend is hormonal and pp, just leave her to get used to everything.

Wow are you the feelings police? She's allowed to feel however she feels, and deal with it in her own time.

OP do you think your friend wants to feel like this? She probably feels really guilty and down anyway and you secretly judging her isn't very nice. Glad you're not my "friend" I'll go as far to say I don't think you really want to congratulate her, you just want to open the debate of gender "disappointment" on here again.

Gender disappointment can be linked to PND Would you speak like this to a lady with PND? It's actually quite common but many women don't speak out for fear of judgment. It's a taboo subject.

For the people who have stated losses on here I'm so sorry. I can't imagine your pain

I mean this in the kindest way possible, you can't compare the two things together. They are completely different situations.

I wouldn't indulge it myself. The little boy deserves to be celebrated, send whatever you normally would and let her get on with dealing with her issues. Hopefully she gets over it and the poor boy doesn't grow up feeling like a disappointment.

I love my dds more than life itself and I dont wish either one was male. I just wish I had a son as well.

This is an important distinction, yes.

I think part of it is because people say shit like 'A son is a son until he takes a wife, a daughter is a daughter for life'.

Absolutely. And this is trotted out on here with regularity. So it seems somewhat lacking in empathy to expect mothers not to be concerned about it, if they don’t have daughters.

I don't know what the answer is, but she absolutely went about it the wrong way. You find a
out the sex exactly so that you don't have to deal with any disappointment once the baby is here!

I think some people are being harsh. You can still be very grateful you have a baby, realise how fortunate you are, but a bit disappointed that it's not a girl / boy. She can't help how she feels. There are loads of situations where you can know how fortunate you are but still feel a bit sad that things havent worked out how you would have chosen if you had free choice, and just because things are worse for other people doesnt mean that your feelings arent valid.

OP there isn't much you can do to support your friend, especially when you think she shouldn't be feeling like she is! Just get her a 'new baby' card. I'm sure when she has spent a bit of time with the baby she will realise she is happy she got him and wont care so much about a girl. Just avoid saying things like 'you can always try again'

Your friends just had a baby, shes disapointed and youve come on mumsnet to essentially slag her off...... not really a friend are you?

Agree, and posters wanting to "drop kick the silly bitch" or bleating that she should be lucky she has a baby have presumably never come across this variant of perinatal and post natal depression.

I hope the woman has some actual friends as well as those who treat her as an opportutnity for a snark on public forum.

I'm constantly told by my aunt that her 2 adult sons never call or visit. She always says how lucky my dad (her brother) is to have 2 daughters as it means he gets to see more of us and more of his grandchildren than he would if he'd had boys
I think this depends on the attitude of the parents, especially the mum.
DH gets on brilliantly with his mum. I get on well with her like a second mum. The dynamic is lovely.

People I know who have MIL issues seem to have MIL who want to keep their little boy 'theirs' and view any daughters in law as threats etc. I can't help but wonder if some of these permanently wounded MIL who complain about how their adult sons never see them are actually quite overbearing and create conflict with their son's partners to the point where he eventually decides to break free.