Gender "disappointment"

[minesadecaf]

Is that even the correct word? Aibu to not understand this?

My friend gave birth to a beautiful healthy son a few days ago. This is her dc2, a second boy. She didn't find out the sex during her pregnancy for the reason that she'd be disappointed to be told if it was a boy and would rather hold on for a surprise in "the hope" of the baby being a girl.

Now he's here and he's amazing! Friend is happy he's healthy of course but she's noticeably upset/gutted (not sure which if either is correct way of describing her emotions but I hope it's clear enough) that she hasn't had a little girl. Frankly, I just can't understand it so how can I "comfort" her? I want to send a congratulations card but all the "it's a boy!" messages seem weirdly inappropriate. I'm out of my depth here.

Now I should add that I'm a mother of two girls whom obviously I adore but still, I just can't imagine being despondent about not having "the right one".

Aibu??

What's with the soundbite nonsense? Like it or not @LaurieMarlow is absolutely right.

To be articulate is to explain yourself clearly. You aren't doing that.

Word salad? Do you mean being articulate?

Quite the reverse.

Do you mean being articulate?

Died laughing.

How many more gnomic, empty sound bites are you planning to contribute?

Perhaps if I write all the sentences together? The only difference is their genitals. Any other differences that you attribute to how girls or boys are is simply a result of your sexism and consequently social conditioning. Imagine loving the child in front you for all their fascinating personality instead of consoling your 'loss'. We are so fortunate to have children, does it really matter whether they have a penis or a vagina, of course it doesn't.

Would you say that to a transgender person?

You're lucky to have a healthy body so how dare you want to change it?

How can you have social conditioning as a consequence of your own sexism?

You're just talking rubbish.

Perhaps if I write all the sentences together?

It is slightly better. Not much though.

The only difference is their genitals. Any other differences that you attribute to how girls or boys are is simply a result of your sexism and consequently social conditioning.

Even if you believe this is true (and I 100% don't, try reading this www.zerotothree.org/resources/1380-are-there-any-differences-in-the-development-of-boys-and-girls-brains), it's not just your social conditioning that's going to play a role here.

gameofmoans makes the point excellently. You'd do well to read all her posts, but this in particular

So yes, I make an effort to limit the battle/ aggressive type stuff and encourage gentler play/ books etc. But we live in a society and my influence is only one small piece of the puzzle. They are constantly exposed to peers/ teachers/ other parents/ advertising/ gifts from friends and family etc etc with 'boyish' themes and so it can often feel like you are fighting a losing battle. It is also very very compelling to children to 'fit in' and to subscribe to cultural and especially gender norms. Gender is one of the earliest markers of identity in small children and they tend to cling to it heavily.

Imagine loving the child in front you for all their fascinating personality instead of consoling your 'loss'.

There's not a single post on this thread disagreeing with this point.

If you actually read the thread you'll see that many, many people have clearly stated that they do not wish their child to be a different sex. They are mourning the fact that they'll never raise a daughter/son. And most get over that very quickly.

People are allowed to feel how they feel. NOBODY has the right to tell someone that their feelings are invalid. NOBODY has the right to shame someone for how they're feeling. NOBODY has the right to make it a competition - yes, sure, there are people worse off in the world. There are ALWAYS people worse off. That doesn't mean nobody is allowed to feel how they feel. Your friend is disappointed, that's fine. Her feelings are valid. It was unkind of you to start this thread. I suspect you knew everyone would attack her and that's why you did it as you feel the same way as them.

This, in spades. Some people are utter arseholes on here - it's not the misery Olympics ffs.

I get this. This is why I think finding out the sex before birth is a bit. ... counter to nature in a way that doesnt assist us. When my son was born i loved his cute face instantly but if id been told at 20 weeks that he was a boy, i would have been so sad.

These poor kids, there's no hope if you cling to these antiquated beliefs.

These poor kids, there's no hope if you cling to these antiquated beliefs.

Back to the (fairly empty) soundbites I see. You are a poster of few words. Much easier than answering people's points, I get that.

Anyway, there's nothing 'antiquated' about acknowledging innate differences between the sexes and the role of socialisation (beyond just the parent). It's a much more nuanced understanding of the issues involved.

And I speak as a mother who tried very hard to create a gender neutral environment for her son. That experience taught me a lot.

I have three boys. I would have loved a girl. It wasn’t meant to be but I absolutely adore my sons. At my anomaly scan we were told ds3 was a boy - I was momentarily disappointed. Disappointment which faded instantly when we were told we may have to terminate as there was an issue with his lung (thank god he survived).

I don’t know what you can do to be honest. Whilst I understand it to a degree it’s not something I’ve experienced x

You're a shit friend. Your whole post reeked of faux concern when it's clear your real motivation is to get people to bitch on your friend for having the feelings that she has shared with you privately. You wanted to judge her but couldnt to her face so sought out a different audience to do so. I hope your friend finds out what a shit fake friend you are and dumps you pronto.

As for gender disappointment- yes you will get lots who cite infertility and therefore say having feelings of GD is invalid. Well there is always someone worse off than you - does this mean you're not entitled to feel anything anymore? I think it's perfectly normal to mourn never getting to experience having a son/daughter. Those are big life experiences you either have or dont have.

Anyone who says it doesnt matter what's between their legs is denying the reality of society. What's said often in the big trans debate on this site is that men and women are different. You cannot have a penis and claim to be a woman because "it doesnt matter what's between your legs". I dont want a grown man representing me as a grown woman because my feelings are he has never truly lived as a woman. Even if he looks like one. Society's expectations of men and women and the biological differences that make us different (such as growing up with periods which a man will never experience) all work to define us. Consequently, raising a daughter WILL be a different experience to raising a son. The relationship you have as a shared or opposite gender will be different and no doubt influenced by societal expectations of gender roles. To deny that is to live in a bubble. That's why things like the maternal grandmother getting to see the grandkids more than the paternal one is a trend. Or the tradition of going wedding dress shopping with your daughter. It's of course silly to have expectations. I personally never had a wedding- I think they're a giant waste of money and so my mum never went dress shopping with me. But undeniably she and I are closer than she is with my brother. I have 2 sons and I admit to feeling disappointed when I was told my 3rd was a boy too. Of course I love him and would fight to the death to protect him. But I cant deny I mourned the fact I would never ever experience having a daughter. I had wanted to experience both. I think that's perfectly human to desire that and doesnt make you horrible for having some feelings of sadness that you wont get to - along with feelings of happiness and love for your coming son.

Great post Vehivle

There are soooo many assumptions about girls and boys that fuel this.
Why a girl? So you they can be close? Plenty of women hate their mothers. I was never close to mine. My own DD is hard work and quite often a PITA whilst my DS is the soft loving one... she'll leave home whereas he'd rather stay.

Why a girl? So you they can be close?

If you’d read the thread you’d see that it’s about the experience of raising a girl being fundamentally different to raising a boy and wanting to experience that. No one expectation.

The only reasons I see for people wanting one of each sex or whatever are always totally asinine. Like ‘wanted to teach a son to play football/go shopping and have a bond with a daughter/a ‘princess’/‘boy stuff’. I don’t get it. You can do that stuff with any kid if they’re interested, their genitals really aren’t something to pin hopes to, I’m a woman and I despise the woman who forced me into existence and don’t see shopping as a leisure activity, no doubt I’m a huge disappointment to that woman who expected a ‘best friend’ and geriatric carer out of me. It’s the human who isn’t forced into existence who is relevant, not their genitals, it’s time for the dreary cliches to die now, it’s 2020.

*who is forced into existence

I was worried a son would have autism. He does.

Salmon, a daughter can have autism.

Of course. As the mother of a child with autism you knew when you posted that that I would know that. You would also know that it affects boys more often. Much more often looking around the schools my son has been at.

When you are pregnant it feels like the roll of a rice. The dice hasnt hit the board yet.

Why a girl? So you they can be close? Plenty of women hate their mothers. I was never close to mine. My own DD is hard work and quite often a PITA whilst my DS is the soft loving one... she'll leave home whereas he'd rather stay.

The same could also be said about a son leaving home and a daughter staying. My mil has two boys and a girl. Both boys moved away from home to different cities then to North America, one even gaining citizenship to Canada and have lived far away from home for years while her daughter has never left and continues to raise her family there with mil also seeing those grandchildren 3-4 times a week.

I didn’t have a great relationship with my mum either and have a polite relationship with my mil, however once I had my first I was still more comfortable around her than my mil and we are closer than we ever were than we were when I was growing up after having children.

Yes, boys and girls are equal, but they are also different. There will always be things that women can relate to and experience (same with men) that the other sex can’t or won’t.

There have been lots of posts about how boys and girls are different. As I said my boy behaves more like a girl is supposed to behave and my daughter is a real tomboy. Anyway regardless of that - for the sake of argument let's say boys and girls can be different and have different experiences growing up. So what?!! If you have a boy this is your CHILD. My DS is 7 and I feel I know him inside out, I understand him better than I understand myself. He is a part of me. OK I'll never know what it's like to have a penis and he'll never have to go through periods and the menopause (lucky thing) but that doesn't stand in the way of us being extremely close. I'm extremely close to my husband and he's a man! Doesn't mean he's from a different planet, we're all human beings. I have so many female friends who are distant from their mothers. Just because you were both born in to a female body doesn't mean you're going to have some magical bond. If you do then that's great but it doesn't always happen. My DH has arranged a holiday for just him and his mum this summer (me and the kids are doing something else that week and we're also having a family holiday together). I think it's lovely that he's so close to his mum and wants quality time with her. My brothers are extremely close to my mum. Can we please get away from this ridiculous idea that males and females can't possibly relate to each other or understand things from the other's perspective even when there are differences.

Can we please get away from this ridiculous idea that males and females can't possibly relate to each other or understand things from the other's perspective even when there are differences

I don’t think anyone’s said that, have they? My relationship with my son is excellent, we’re good friends. It doesn’t stop me from being sad I haven’t got a daughter.