Gender "disappointment"

[minesadecaf]

Is that even the correct word? Aibu to not understand this?

My friend gave birth to a beautiful healthy son a few days ago. This is her dc2, a second boy. She didn't find out the sex during her pregnancy for the reason that she'd be disappointed to be told if it was a boy and would rather hold on for a surprise in "the hope" of the baby being a girl.

Now he's here and he's amazing! Friend is happy he's healthy of course but she's noticeably upset/gutted (not sure which if either is correct way of describing her emotions but I hope it's clear enough) that she hasn't had a little girl. Frankly, I just can't understand it so how can I "comfort" her? I want to send a congratulations card but all the "it's a boy!" messages seem weirdly inappropriate. I'm out of my depth here.

Now I should add that I'm a mother of two girls whom obviously I adore but still, I just can't imagine being despondent about not having "the right one".

Aibu??

Because that's his personality

I see it with regularity among boys like him, raised in a very tuned in ‘gender neutral’ way.

testosterone does to some degree mean that males present these traits more commonly

Yes. That’s part of it.

but that is biological and mainly obsolete now as society and nurture are a much more prominent part of our lives

Deciding that we can make biology ‘obsolete’ because of society and nurture absolutely staggers me. How utterly ridiculous. We have millions of years of human development baked into our DNA.

It isn’t an inherent boy thing. It’s just that when they get to be older, girls are told by society building sites are not for them.

Of course girls can be into building sites.

In general though, boys are more likely to be. I don’t believe that is primarily because girls are told it’s not for them. I certainly tried to dissuade my son and get him into other stuff. Didn’t work.

Given the constant stream of MIL threads on here, I can totally understand anyone having a preference for a daughter. I never realised how potentially fraught life as the mother of adult sons can be until I joined mumsnet.

And yes, it's no wonder people bottle up their feelings and pnd is sich a thing, when no-one's allowed to have a down moment when the hormones are raging, because some women can't have children at all.

'I’ll never forget the look on his face when at about 10 months I pushed him past a building site in his buggy. He was entranced.'

How many times did you miss an 'entranced' look at a beautiful flower, horse, whatever because you weren't looking for it?

My 4yo dd is keener on our wooden train set than ever her brothers were. She's fascinated by sharks and her imagination is full of encounters with monsters. And she's no time for dolls. But also adores butterflies, unicorns, horses.

My boys are competitive (not particularly in the sporting arena, though), but most people, male and female, are - it's just that in boys the usual channel for competition that's societally provided to them is in sport/physical prowess/aggression. Girls compete in other ways (along societally provided channels). It's not just explicit messages that make a difference here, it's sets of assumptions and cues. The parent of a girl may not stop the buggy in the first place, for instance, and say 'oh look, a digger'. And the parent of a boy may not say 'look at that beautiful flower'.

I really don't think it's as simple as you're making out.

Civil engineering has traditionally been an inherently male profession but that's fast changing. Two of my DH's recent line managers have been women. Plus our DD2 (7) is absolutely fascinated by how things work and I think it's very likely that she'll be an engineer when she grows up. (As an example, we went to Canada on holiday to visit relatives. It was the first time the girls had travelled by plane and DD2 was fascinated to see how the wing flaps worked.)

So, although it's true that boys are more naturally drawn towards certain professions, there's still a lot of stereotyping involved.

It's the same as nursing being seen as a female profession, when in fact men can make very good nurses. And obviously, there used to be the assumption that all doctors were male, though thankfully this particular stereotype has largely disappeared.

I really don't think it's as simple as you're making out.

I don’t think it’s simple at all. However I believe a significant proportion of it is innate.

And yes, it's no wonder people bottle up their feelings and pnd is sich a thing, when no-one's allowed to have a down moment when the hormones are raging, because some women can't have children at all.

I agree. It's the same when someone posts a thread about their toxic mother. There will always be at least one poster who says that they would give anything to have their beloved mother back so how dare the OP complain about their mother.

@LaurieMarlow oh well if your son did these things that proves your point completely and all boys are the same.

And yes we are overwriting those millions of years of evolution, our modern lifestyles have fundamentally changed the way humans live and interact but evolution doesn't move as quickly as we do.

oh well if your son did these things that proves your point completely and all boys are the same.

I didn’t say any of that. I was using the example to show how a child who was parented in a very firmly gender neutral way showed very traditional gender traits very early on.

And yes we are overwriting those millions of years of evolution, our modern lifestyles have fundamentally changed the way humans live and interact

I think this is total bollocks.

Our lifestyles have changed yes. The wiring of fundamental human behaviour is millennia old. It’s not going to be utterly overturned by 50 years of society. Our basic urges, desires, motivations are all the same.

Who cares what sex your child is??! Can't we evolve beyond this bs.

Read the post above yours @MrFumble, Laurie’s spot on. Just because you don’t understand doesn’t make others’ feelings invalid.

@codenameduchess

As their mother you are in control of what they are exposed to at a young age, there is no need for any sort of focus on sports, competition or aggression unless you have bought into the gender stereotypes and forced them on to the children. It's the same with girls and all things pink, sparkly, unicorn and princess- it's not needed and definitely not essential.

As their mother I get to 'control' some part of what they are exposed to but a relatively small part I'm finding. So yes, I make an effort to limit the battle/ aggressive type stuff and encourage gentler play/ books etc. But we live in a society and my influence is only one small piece of the puzzle. They are constantly exposed to peers/ teachers/ other parents/ advertising/ gifts from friends and family etc etc with 'boyish' themes and so it can often feel like you are fighting a losing battle. It is also very very compelling to children to 'fit in' and to subscribe to cultural and especially gender norms. Gender is one of the earliest markers of identity in small children and they tend to cling to it heavily. Yes, many kids go against gender norms, but you are still fighting those norms every day. And it is very different as a parent to be up against boy socialisation than girl socialisation. Some people may find the boy track easier and less repulsive- I don't.

Sexism is invalid

Acknowledging that raising one sex has fundamental differences to raising the other is not sexism.

I'm loving that the ad I'm getting with this thread is for extra safe condoms

What a load of bollocks - flame away! She should be grateful that she has a healthy baby as that is all that matters!

What a load of bollocks - flame away! She should be grateful that she has a healthy baby as that is all that matters

You haven’t read the thread, have you?

Acknowledging that raising one sex has fundamental differences to raising the other is not sexism.

👏 couldn't agree more.

The only difference is their genitals.

The only difference is their genitals.

Well that’s obviously bollocks.

Excuse the pun

The only difference is their genitals

Bit of a brick wall response, don't you think?

I think your friend was rather silly not finding out the sex at the 20 week scan if she was going to be that disappointed with a boy, then she would have had a few more months to come to terms with it.

In my opinion this is one of those feelings you keep to yourself, you might feel it, you can't help what you feel, but it is very silly to be openly disappointed. If you have a live healthy baby with no problems as far as I'm concerned you've won the lottery, and every time you find yourself getting upset you should think about all those women who had miscarriages, still births or babies born with health problems, and those who are involuntarily childless, and check your privilege quite frankly. It's a cliche but it's true.

Your sexist social conditioning creates your perceived differences.

Your sexist social conditioning creates your perceived differences.

More rubbish. You’re just spouting word salad now.

Word salad? Do you mean being articulate?