To wish this 13 year old girl the best of luck and hope she is successful?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

A 13 year old girl is taking Oxfordshire County Council to court over its transgender toolkit for schools. According to the toolkit students who identify as trans can choose with which sex they get changed, or with whom they share a room on over night school trips.

This is madness, right? Potentially letting teenage boys get their kit off with the girls or share a dorm? When my DS has been on residentials he’s not known in advance who he’s sharing a room with, I just assume, naively, that the rooms will be single-sex.

Kids who are trans need to be supported and made to feel comfortable, but surely that shouldn’t come at the expense of everybody else?

AIBU to hope this 13 year old girl wins her case and gets this nonsense out of schools? As I understand it it’s not just Oxfordshire that would be affected. There are toolkits like this throughout the country, so if it’s ruled unlawful in court all of them will have to come down.

Sorry for the DM link.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7971457/Girl-13-launches-High-Court-fight-block-councils-advice-trans-pupils.html

I’ve also found an article in the Oxford Mail, for those of you who understandably don’t want to click on the DM.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18213788.oxfordshire-girl-seeks-judicial-review-trans-toolkit/

how much of this is genuine and how much is jumping on a bandwagon

The worrying thing is that "acceptance without exception" and rushing onto medical pathways mean that the young people (I would even dare to say most) who are going along with social influence/contagion will be subjected to irreversible treatments and 'therapies'.

Since the trans lobby seems to have unlimited funds to splash out on widespread regulatory capture and lobbying, let them put their money into creating third spaces for trans-identifying people. But they won't. Because this isn't about protecting anyone. It's about running roughshod over women's rights and breaking down safeguarding.

Dragonembroidery, No, not Isle of Wight, I'm in England. We've had two f2m students in the last two years and all staff were informed. Maybe it's just our school's policy (Stonewall/Mermaids would not be made welcome by our HT, and I suspect he's far more concerned about the safeguarding problems as he also has young daughters). I've never been informed of m2f, but IMO it's obvious. Also, many of the children come from the same two primary schools so there is now way it's not common knowledge amongst their peers.

you were happy for X to share last week, what's the problem with new student Y who is also trans

That was what flipped my very tolerant must-be-inclusive daughter.

She was fine (though we now know that not all the girls were) with nice dreamy 'Tom' becoming 'Tammy' but had the absolute heebyjeebies last year when one of the school's definitely worrying boys started to grow his hair long and dye it blue --
'Shiiiiit... what if CreepyDaniel's going to say he's a girl, wadda we do, oh shit....'
(he left, so we didn't have to find out, but she had a look of genuine panic).

Good for her.

Segregation should remain on the basis of sex, bullying should be dealt with and not assumed to be inevitable.
In prisons, trans prisoners can be given protection / separated like any other 'vulnerable' prisoner. Not put into opposite sex prisons.
Ideally public toilets going forward should all be single cubical accessible toilets like I've seen in a lot of newer buildings.

And for me it's more than the boy who says he's a girl. If our girls are being coerced (you've known Bob/Barbara for years you know they won't harm you) to be accepting and inclusive with their private space it makes it so much easier later for an older student or even adult to press that button ("you've always been such an accepting girl, why are you being difficult?").

I hope other young girls her age are watching this and will feel brave to start a slow pushback. As someone recently on another thread said - our silence IS NOT acceptance.

Up to about 3 year ago I had never worked with a transgender teen in 34 years of working in youth provision. In the last 3 years I have worked with more than 25. I am shocked and concerned and have many concerns that are hard to voice at work.

I hope that the girl wins. All girls should have access to single-sex changing spaces and toilets.

Sincerely hope she wins because of experiences I had at school/sixth form. I was always selected for trips for good behaviour or grades but I always refused and missed out on opportunities because frankly I was scared. I still carry these fears to this day. So, I really hope she wins.

YANBU and I hope she is sucessful. Its bonkers, this new pretending that sex is not an actual thing, especially in schools. From my memory too, the teen boys used to constantly try to get a glimpse in our loos and changing rooms, one actually got caught hiding in the girls changing room once. I doubt such behaviour has ended. But these boys would just need to say the magic words and would have free reign to perv on us now. Unbelievable tbh.

*NAMALT, I know, I know. But enough are for it to be a problem, and school was a worse time than most, especially once I started having to deal with periods and such too. Its silly, but I was embarassed using sanitary products even when there were just girls there, would try to make the rustle lower so they wouldn't know. With boys there too?! Would have been hell..

There was acually a 'transboy' at our school cme to think of it. We just saw her as a tomboy tbh but she always claimed to actually be male..etc. She felt uncomfortable changing with the girls, so a room was found for her to change in seperate from us. Easily done..and surely the most sensible answer. Oddly, despite feeling she was a boy, she never requested to go in with the boys, almost as if she knew there was a difference and she would not be 'safe'. A difference thats made out to be non-existant today

What absolute unbelievable lunacy. Hope she wins. The worlds truly gone mad.

Do you think that with a girl being at the centre of this case the law will actually have to face up to the rights and needs of girls rather than allowing it to be dominated by into worrying about how we deal with the needs of trans pupils?

I hope so, but am not optomistic. Given anytime anyone tries to come at this from the view of girls/women, its just 'trans people need this', 'trans people are vulnerable' as an answer, ignoring that women/girls are vulnerable too and the very reason for segregation in the first place!

Really hope that she wins.

Kate Scottow is also in court today as well.

Single use toilets simply aren't viable as the norm. They take up too much space and/or increase queues. They are also a worse solution for men/boys. In certain circumstances they also reduce safety.

Good luck to her

I seem to be a little alone with my opinion here, but I don't think it really matters? sexual experimentation/sexual assault (whichever it is you're concerned about) happens between same sex and different sex groups of teens... I have a 3 week old and by the time he's a teenager, I totally expect same sex spaces to have pretty much been phased out, and why not? Teenage years are when all kinds of sexual feelings begin to occur, in all teens, regardless of whether they're part of the lgbtq+ community. What's to say that my son won't be gay? And if he is, he's actually more likely to sexually experiment with boys! But nobody is going to stop him from getting changed in he boys' changing room! So why would we stop kids getting changed with any sex/gender?

students who identify as trans can choose with which sex they get changed, or with whom they share a room on over night school trips.

Did the people making these "toolkits" not go to mixed schools? I'd imagine all classes would have at least one boy willing to "take one for the team" and announce themselves as trans to get into the girls changing rooms and report back. School was bad enough in the eighties, I'm so glad I don't have to navigate this. And I'm sorry for all the earnest teenage girls I know in real life and see online who are still hardwired to fight for anybody else's rights over their own. Best of luck to this girl, I hope she wins.

Single self-contained toilets also tend to be dirtier because in normal loos there is a social pressure to keep them clean/be responsible, because you are all sharing a space. Women also gain from the community aspects of normal communal loos.

I hope she wins. And if she doesn't, women's groups should take to the streets!

If you can choose who you share sleeping arrangements with, why would the wants of a small number of boys, trump those of a large number of girls?

Once again the desires of males are being put before the needs of females, and gender and sex are being conflated to suit their whims.

I have a 3 week old and by the time he's a teenager, I totally expect same sex spaces to have pretty much been phased out, and why not?

Because there has been zero public debate and zero public consent about this Because sex segregated toilets are there for a reason. Because women fought to establish sex segregated spaces and why should we relinquish them on the imperious demand of a niche lobby?

@Rachel97 putting aside the very serious matter of sexual assaults (yes they will happen but shouldn’t our job be to minimise the opportunity for them to occur, which is what sex segregation is all about), what about the matter or privacy and dignity? Think back to your own teenage years, as a 13 year old girl would you have been happy getting undressed for PE in a communal changing room? And even if YOU are happy to do so, that doesn’t mean that every girl would or should feel the same way.

Rachel, I'm trying to see your point, but do you think that girls should have PE with boys and then go into the changing rooms and shower and get changed with them? Because your baby son may or may not grow up to be gay?

@2fallsagain - I can assure you that not everybody in Oxford is part of the 'woke Oxford brigade' and actually I find that quite insulting that you think this is a typical attitude from those of us in Oxford. In fact, as a regular reader of the Oxford Mail and as a person who often makes comments on the articles, I can assure you that most of those who have commented on this article and are in agreement with the girl are regular users of the site.
The ones who you deem to be 'woke' very rarely comment and I guess they have their own agenda. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're not actually from Oxford either - or if they are, it's likely that they're students or people who have studied here.
For what it's worth, I hope the girl wins her case Unfortunately I think she'll face an uphill battle.

Our DS has friends who have introduced 2 of their friends as identifying as transgender. Both around 13/14.
For anyone who may want to read the story, google The Dorothy Stringer School in Brighton, who have numerous pupils with gender preferences.

Rachel I'm so glad you're ok with it.

Can you now spare a few moments to think about why some other young girls may not?

And conflating trans with being gay is ignorant and lazy. I've a DD who may or not be gay. Did you know that if she was and she refused to "suck lady dick" she'd be tarred a bigot by many who support trans ideology at any cost?

Gender preferences. There just isn't an eye roll big enough