To wish this 13 year old girl the best of luck and hope she is successful?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

A 13 year old girl is taking Oxfordshire County Council to court over its transgender toolkit for schools. According to the toolkit students who identify as trans can choose with which sex they get changed, or with whom they share a room on over night school trips.

This is madness, right? Potentially letting teenage boys get their kit off with the girls or share a dorm? When my DS has been on residentials he’s not known in advance who he’s sharing a room with, I just assume, naively, that the rooms will be single-sex.

Kids who are trans need to be supported and made to feel comfortable, but surely that shouldn’t come at the expense of everybody else?

AIBU to hope this 13 year old girl wins her case and gets this nonsense out of schools? As I understand it it’s not just Oxfordshire that would be affected. There are toolkits like this throughout the country, so if it’s ruled unlawful in court all of them will have to come down.

Sorry for the DM link.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7971457/Girl-13-launches-High-Court-fight-block-councils-advice-trans-pupils.html

I’ve also found an article in the Oxford Mail, for those of you who understandably don’t want to click on the DM.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18213788.oxfordshire-girl-seeks-judicial-review-trans-toolkit/

Best of luck to this brave girl and her family.

This is going to become more widespread. Teachers are being instructed by transgender lobby groups to teach kids that they can choose and change their gender. It also spreads quickly through peer groups, if the cool kids think transing looks interesting.

Are there actually a lot of teenagers changing genders?

Well, DS is 18, so far out of his primary class of approx 30 kids, 2 boys are now living as girls. Both lovely kids, neither I would see as a threat to anyone, however it is quite alarming. As younger kids, I would have said both boys were gay.

I think the vast majority of DC in the trans world are unlikely to be any threat, however, their rights don't trump others rights and like always there will be those that choose to take advantage.

Wax "Well, DS is 18, so far out of his primary class of approx 30 kids, 2 boys are now living as girls."

what does that mean, they are living as girls? I just live.

Good for her for standing up to this absurd guidance. Really hope she wins.

what does that mean, they are living as girls? I just live.

As should we all. Just live I mean. What we have done as a society is put everyone into boxes and then when people felt their boxes didn't apply, we created more boxes of different types rather than get rid of the boxes completely.

There are two sexes but I honestly couldn't care less if male people want to wear dresses or make-up and if female people want to play rugby and drink beer (massive stereotypes for effect).

What I meant was that these male people have changed their names to those normally associated with female people and wear clothes normally worn by female and interact with society as if they were were born female.

Good luck to her. Brave girl.

Best of luck to her

young person with a penis who identifies as female should be given protection from the potential bullying of boys too, so should not therefore be forced to share a room with them.

But this problem is not solved by just dumping any male child who feels he should not be in male facilities (for whatever reason, genuine or not) into female ones. By including males you make it mixed sex and exclude even more females now and in future.

Not in my name. No.

I have four children aged between 11 and 15 (3 girls and a boy). In the 15yr old's year there is a trans girl (so born male) and in my 14 yr old son's year there is a trans boy. I'd just like to comment about the avoidance of bullying - both of these children were just normal kids until they 'came out' as trans. They were feted and applauded and are now the two most popular kids in the school, invited to everything etc. They don't even have to strictly adhere to the uniform like everyone else. I'm not sure where the assumption of bullying comes from?

sadly so few men get what it’s like to be sexualised from when you start to develop, to feel so self conscious about your periods and to just fell safer in spaces where there are no males (apart from very young children)

My lovely DH hasn't even really grasped this, as evidenced by the parent meeting we went to on PHSE, where he asked why they segregate the groups by sex for these lessons in Yr 5 & Yr 6, and why not just teach the boys and girls the lessons all together? The (female) teacher gave him the Paddington Hard Stare and said that in her experience, this was far less embarrassing for all the children to be able to speak within sex-segregated groups about issues that would specifically affect their bodies. He was unconvinced, until DC1 told him in No Uncertain Terms that having mixed lessons on this topic would be worse than death!

The 13 year old trans girl in DS’s form is definitely one of the girls and I don’t imagine her close friends would have a problem sharing with her (they are all very woke). To old gimmer me, he reads like an extremely effeminate (not sure of the up to date term), probably gay, boy.

Surely as long as everything is open and everyone consents then there doesn’t need to be any problem.

I hope she wins. Courage calls to courage everywhere

Surely as long as everything is open and everyone consents then there doesn’t need to be any problem.

Except that the school cannot and would not tell either you or your DC if they were sharing were a transperson because the transperson has a right to privacy and dignity too. So you / DC could be totally unaware of the reality of the situation and therefore unable to consent.

I'm not sure where the assumption of bullying comes from?

Sssshhh the whole thing is all about how bullied they are and about their rights whilst never answering the question about what rights they dont have

I think that if close friends consent, that's one thing - presumably all their parents would also be aware.

It's the blanket "the trans child gets to choose" regardless of the choices of the others, that is not OK.

@SarahTancredi
It's very rarely boys. You point is oddly offensive to me. It's not the boys' fault.

Boys are FAR more accepting of variation of personality and appearance and body shape among boys than girls are among girls.

As a feminist I hate that girls feel that they aren't even girls if they don't look the 'look'.

This is promoted and so subtly bullied by the other girls that it's almost impossible to stop.

There's little cross gender interaction in high schools nowadays and where there is the boys would only see the girls rocking in the full 'look' as able to be romantically approached. This is v rare post 'me too'. They don't affect or even see, the other girls.

Some girls who feel that if they don't identify with the 'look' or don't want it, or can be bothered to get up at 5am and bother with it or can't afford it. Or don't want to attract boys and/or don't like the enforced false femininity of girls' society in high schools (I hate math )

These girls are the ones that then identify (and are accepted by the boys) as boys.

Schools need to deal with the bullying not put anyone who may or may not feel safe with the boys in with the girls.

This, and out in the 'real world' also. Women and girls should not be used as a shield against aggressive male behaviour.

"Surely as long as everything is open and everyone consents then there doesn’t need to be any problem."

but it's not. No one will tell you if you are sharing with someone of the opposite sex. You won't find out till you get there.

Surely as long as everything is open and everyone consents then there doesn’t need to be any problem.

How would consent from all be gained?
We have read in similar guidance that those ( girls mostly) who object are told to change elswhere/not do the activity/not go on the trip plus they well be called transphobic amongst other things.
Is it really consent or is it coercive?

pity actually that's true - under 18, I'm not sure if I would really think of it as consent.

Are there actually a lot of teenagers changing genders?
I work with young people age 11 to 18.
Up to about 3 year ago I had never worked with a transgender teen in 34 years of working in youth provision. In the last 3 years I have worked with more than 25. I am shocked and concerned and have many concerns that are hard to voice at work.

students who identify as trans can choose with which sex they get changed, or with whom they share a room on over night school trips.

I presume that non-trans children are also given this equal freedom of choice - and are in no way questioned, accused or asked to give reasons if they choose to only share with children of their own biological sex? No?

People asking how common this actually is are, I fear, missing the point somewhat. As with anything, it's no solace to anybody if there's only a 1 in a billion risk if YOU are that 1 .

It might be relatively uncommon at the moment (although it sounds like it may not), but it's already gaining a lot of ground and is only going one way. I don't think anybody is wanting to make things more difficult for people who identify as trans, but decent trans folk will also not want to make things more difficult for non-trans folk.

A transgirl/transwoman with a penis could still represent the very same risks to a biological female as any male-identifying, male-bodied person could. The vast majority of men wouldn't pose a threat to a woman in a potentially close-quarters scenario, but the accepted norm is for that not to be allowed to be a possibility in the first place - and it's a perfect way for all decent penis-owners, be they men/boys/transwomen/transgirls to demonstrate that they are in no way a threat to biological females by actively declining to share with them, for their (the females') peace of mind.

dragon

It was in response to someone saying that a boy who identifies as female would be bullied in with the boys. It's a common issue raised that boys bully trans girl so they must change with the girls. The suggestion is never to tackle bullying.

No one should bully anyone. But despite youngsters being predominantly f2m there arent so many trans boys fighting to change with the boys.

Girls are screwed over 2 fold in this. Once by the fact Male bodied children get fo change with the girls and play sports with the girls. And again when transbiys are doped up on testosterone and not allowed to play with the boys so girls lose out

From my understanding Oxfordshire council took everyone’s opinion apart from those that the ruling would impact.

Whilst it was very nice that they want to support a few children with their life choices it appears that it crossed no ones mind that those that it would affect mainly girls

Slightly off topic. Is the boys acceptance of trans boys mentioned just an extension of the "tom boy" thing which always has been far more socially acceptable whereas trans girls (in my experience anyway) is very much a modern development?