To think the use of prostitutes just isn't that big a deal?

[Hihothedairyo]

Now here me out first, I do not mean married men who use prostitutes without the knowledge/consent of their wives/partners. Those are scum, I have been cheated on in that way before so believe me when I say I do not agree with that.

However, I've seen and heard a lot of people (including friends of mine) who believe that men in general who use prostitutes are scum.

Personally, I think that, provided you are sure the person you are having sex with is not being trafficked, then you are really just two consenting adults having sex. Yes there is money exchanged, but nobody is forcing the sex worker to do this job (in this scenario, I know that DOES happen).

Should a person who's say, 30 years old and still a virgin, and now feels their too old and too inexperienced to go out and find a woman to have sex with them, not be able to use a service that a woman is willingly providing? What about someone with some form of disability that wants sex but doesn't have the confidence or whatever to get it normally?

I've got a good friend who lost his virginity to a prostitute, and has visited them a few other times also. He's in a happy relationship now and does not use them and never has while in any relationship. I don't feel that him having used them was wrong, but he is not open about having used them at all and I'm pretty sure his partner doesn't know that he ever has.

I just feel there is far too much judgement and hate towards people who are, in reality, just doing something that has been done since time began. And I see no wrong in it, I imagine I'm in the minority here though.

Here are some stats in the pic.

We hear about the happy sex workers but most are middle class with options (and often are cam girls or similar where they don’t actually touch the men!) and very unrepresentative. And even then they end up with PTSD anyway. Look up Mia Khalifa- former porn star with PTSD.

How can women ever be equal if men think they have a right to buy them?

@ Hinchunup Women who sell/exchange sex are disproportionately disadvantaged -and your evidence is? While it is true that many street prostitutes have had a background in the care system and others have become drug addicts many others have had a normal background and held other jobs before they entered prostitution here

when they are asked as children what they want to do for a living say they want to sell sex. It is a frequent argument put out by abolitionists that no little girl wants to become a prostitute And asked if they want to become estate agents, cleaners-do children have that as an ambition? In fact some little girls do want to become prostitutes here here here and here It’s a stupid argument as well as being untrue.

While it is true that more men pay for sex than women but there is a lot of ascertainment bias. In fact some women do pay for sex here

By your logic, OP, it's ok to do pretty much anything to earn money as long as you 'choose' to do it. Sell your kidney, perhaps? It is society's responsibility to protect vulnerable people from being forced into dangerous 'choices' through desperation.

Women have been selling sex since god was a boy.
So what? A lot of things have gone on 'since god was a boy'. Doesn't mean they all still should. 'It's been going on forever' isn't an acceptable defense of anything.

Prostitute/sex worker isn't all one thing.

Call Girl with a glossy website and a mews flat near Shepherd's Market is not the same as a street corner crack whore in Shepherd's Bush.

@ Elsiebear90 I’m not saying most of them are trafficked or abused or pimped then what was your point in drawing attention to the number of prostitutes who are immigrants?

most of them are having sex they don’t enjoy and don’t want to have so they can get paid .. Most? How do you know? You don’t-you just suspect. Certainly among those prostitutes who have contributed to threads on Mumsnet some enjoyed the sex (at least some of the time) some did not and to some it was a bit Meh. But most? You should not make claims you cannot substantiate.

Abolitionists make lots of claims about the negative mental effects of prostitution claiming high levels of PTSD and depression. While there are a number of academic papers making such claims those papers suffer from a lack of a control group-namely people with precisely the same background who do not prostitute. So some surveys have been done on street prostitutes who not infrequently have issues of homelessness, drug addiction as well-such other stressors may contribute to PTSD etc. for a critique see here.

Also there is a failure to acknowledge that those with pre-existing mental problems (such as depression and anxiety) who cannot hold down a full time job may choose prostitution as it offers relatively high pay for hours worked.here here And see the recent home office funded research herepgs 4,13,15,35. Such people will appear in surveys of prostitute’s mental health but their problems have nothing to do with unwanted sex.

The Vancouver paper you mention here compares the correlates of poor mental in a number of prostitutes. It finds that poorer mental health occurs in those prostitutes who take drugs, work the streets are homeless and from ethnic minorities and who suffered from childhood sexual abuse. What it does not do is the control namely compare the mental health of those with those stressors who do not prostitute nor does it take account of the prevalence pre-existing mental health issues. One conclusion of the paper is that mental health would be better if prostitution was decriminalised.

Examination of mental health of prostitutes operating in a decriminalized environments (New Zealand and NSW Australia) show in New Zealand here compared prostitutes with age matched samples from the general population (so a control of sorts) showed No evidence was found that sex work and increased adult psychiatric morbidity are inevitably associated, although there may be subgroups of workers with particular problems

In another study published in 2008 about Queensland, Australia here concludes Much of the increased levels of poor mental health among illegal sex workers were associated with more negative experiences before, and subsequent to entering the sex industry. These patterns were not seen among women from the legal industry sectors. This research suggests that illegal, street-based sex workers, from whom many previous results have been derived, may show patterns of disadvantage, and health outcomes not seen in sex workers from other industry sectors

Unfortunately both these papers are behind publisher paywalls. One that is not is a report from NSW in Australia in 2012 but compares results from other states The sex industry in New South Wales here reported (p 26) On the whole LASH respondents appear to be well adjusted and comfortable with their occupation, however 10% had high scores on the Kessler-6 psychological distress scale that indicates that they were likely to have a serious mental illness .This was consistent across all states, and is about twice the rate for similar aged women in the general population. These women are likely to have other stressors in their lives such as stigma, drug use, homelessness, social and financial constraints. Health and outreach service providers need to be mindful of this minority and be able to make appropriate referrals when they suspect a sex worker is seriously at risk

So the conclusion is that prostitution per se is not as many claim responsible for poor mental health but rather the conditions under which it sometimes operates

It's just morally wrong. To pay money for it. And to take money for it.
Both.
Consent is when you do it for free and willingly. When money is exchanging hands for something like this, the whole conversation of consent goes out of the window!! It's no different to someone abusing their power to influence someone to have sex with them - think about it. They wouldn't do it, unless you pay. How can that be called consent?? I'd be disgusted with myself if I felt like I had no option but to pay for it. I'd rather go without!! seriously, you can live without sex, it's not a necessity, it's a nice to have!

^It's just morally wrong. To pay money for it. And to take money for it.
Both.^

What about if it's gifts, presents, wining and dining, etc?

I noticed in my post above one link was incorrect. In the sentance drug addiction as well-such other stressors may contribute to PTSD etc. for a critique see here. The link should be here

Of course the men who use prostitutes are crummy bastards. People who pay for sex are lousy selfish people. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but you can choose the company you keep.

Unless you are being paid. Then apparently you can put up with anything.

People who claim to use prostitutes are good at discussing this on the Internet. But not in the office or at work. Funny that.

The only exception I’ve known to this is the armed services. And they seemed to like calling themselves “whoremongers”. Make of that what you will.

@Hihothedairyo Obviously you didn’t take kindly to being asked what choices you made to see yourself homeless with a tiny baby. It’s easy to see why; it’s a very unfair question to ask, based on assumptions that are very unfair to make. Just like your own very unfair assumption that women ‘choose’ their way into brothels. Women don’t choose their way into prostitution any more than they choose their way into homelessness. In fact, homelessness is often the precursor to prostitution, and not every woman has a partner on hand to rescue her out of the situation by renting her a flat, as you did.

@exponential It’s always good eye-roll material when some academic comes along with a ream of studies to persuade the general public that we haven’t the brains we were born with. How about you bend over and study your toe nails while the sex buying men of Britain line up behind you? Do feel free then to come back to us with the results of your latest study.

Liar

They re talking about the first one presumably

Probably in order to fund a drug habit?