To leave 16 and 13 year old alone overnight

[Scampitramp]

School years 11 & 9. 13 year old nearly 14.

We've been invited to a party a couple of hours away so will stay overnight. Would leave mid afternoon Saturday & return around lunchtime Sunday. Used to being left while we go out locally, sometimes until early hours. Fairly sensible - can be trusted not to have friends over/parties/not to set fire to the house.

Seeing it as first foray into further independence.

Yay or nay??

Those nspcc guidelines are bonkers re over 16 year olds. As a 16 year old I went off to Greece on holiday on my own!

That was a 7 night stay, with my sister who was 18.

OP if they are sensible it's fine. Maybe let a neighbour know what's going on & tell the kids to have them as a point of contact if they need a hand with anything.

When I was 17 my parents went on holiday for a long weekend with friends & left me home alone. I absolutely did have a) my boyfriend over (I remember making him sleep in the spare room!) And b) about 14 friends over.

Young people dont instantly mature into adults on their 18th birthday.

@Italiangreyhound I do agree with you but we are talking NT 16 yos, I would be disappointed if my 16yo is not able to be left for 1 night at home, doesn't mean it's 100% certain to happen of course but I would be left wondering if I could have prepared them better etc.

DS2 is autistic so it's not a given he will be able to but we are doing our best to ensure he is able to learn to be self sufficient.

I do think now that children are babied way more than they used to be.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland to be fair that doesn't sound particularly bad at 17. I would have had my BF over and wouldn't have made him sleep in the spare room. Having friends over - meh! Did you trash anything? I had friends over when parents were away but we were pretty good at clearing up etc and nothing awful ever happened. I guess it's about trust and maturity. Sometimes you have to learn for yourself a bit as a teen.

It's honestly fine

@Changeofname79 "I do agree with you but we are talking NT 16 yos, I would be disappointed if my 16yo is not able to be left for 1 night at home, doesn't mean it's 100% certain to happen of course but I would be left wondering if I could have prepared them better etc.

DS2 is autistic so it's not a given he will be able to but we are doing our best to ensure he is able to learn to be self sufficient."

The thing is it's all OK if it's all OK, and if not, then well it's a bit late. So individual parents make choices based on their knowledge of their own kids.

My point was that if your children cannot be left alone at 16, it's not necessarily that you are a failure. My dd is 15 and autistic. She can cook and look after herself but I couldn't leave her alone overnight and I would seriously worry if her little brother was there too.

it's not a parenting failure to have anxious kids or have kids who cannot be left alone.

"I do think now that children are babied way more than they used to be."

I don't agree, I think there have always been parents who left their kids alone and some who did not. My parents never left us alone as kids. But that was part of hem being real home-bodies!

At 15 I was childminding young children and babies until the early hours of the morning while their parents went out.

At 16 I was responsible enough to be left alone overnight and make sure my 14 year old brother was safe.

It depends on your 16 year old and whether the 13/14 year old will listen. I would make sure they had the number of a trusted adult nearby in case of an emergency.

@Italiangreyhound I do see what you are saying but like I say I am talking about NT children and not children who may learning difficulties or other issues such as anxiety etc.

I absolutely stand by what I said re children being babied more, I don't mean because they may or may not be able to be left at home alone but because older teens are treated like younger children and not given responsibility or freedom in many aspects of life. You only have to read half the threads on MN to see this.

I may have been a bit harsh in saying it is a fail if teens aren't self sufficient enough but as a rule most 16 yos should be and it doesn't happen overnight.

TrainspottingWelsh "What makes me laugh the most about the mollycoddling crew is the fact they seem to genuinely believe it's better parenting."

It's pretty obvious 'we' (this undefined group) think we are parenting in the right way because if we did not, we would do things differently. Or at least keep quiet about it!

In fact if we thought caution was good and then did not act cautiously, we would be terrible parents!

What you call "mollycoddling" others would call 'appropriate caution'.

I can see your perspective, can you see mine?

"If anyone said they were deliberately preventing/ delaying their dc's development in other areas there would be outrage, but anything to do with any form of independence and some people strangely seem to think being too lazy to bother teaching them is great parenting."

Or maybe see it the other way, if anyone was deliberately being negligent then people would say it was a risk.

We are all defining our risk as we see it, based on on our own children. I'm not saying other people's kids can't do XYZ unsupervised!

But I am shocked some people's stories about being left alone as children in different situations are shocking to me. And as a child I would have hated it and I know my kids wouldn't cope with it.

" older teens are treated like younger children..." Changeofname79

I do agree but I think it is a natural progression.

My mum left school and was working at 15 (maybe even 14 but she is now dead so I cannot check that fact, my dad definitely left at 15 and was working at 15).

I think nowadays it is quite rare for kids to leave school at even 16, 17 or 18, they often stay on in education, it's a rule until 18 now (although I know some get round it).

The 'get married at 16' feels like a real red herring, who wants that for their child? Who wants to have to give permission for their child because they are legally too young to make such a decision.

I'm not great at getting stats off the internet but it looks like between 1800 and 1900, women were generally married for the first time between the ages of 20 and 22. But for marriages of opposite-sex couples, the average (mean) age for men marrying in 2016 was 37.9 years, while for women it was 35.5 years.

I am prepared to be corrected as i may not have found the best sites for stats!

But either way, we live longer! So it seems natural each stage is going to get longer. BUT in reality childhood,' in the sense we may know it, is actually getting shorter, and what is getting longer is 'teenage' years; meaning anything really from 9 or 10 or 11 to 20 or beyond!

We know brains don't finish their maturing until 25, and actually go on changing so the adult to child 'threshold' isn't necessarily a chronological one. Just a legal one. If you see what I mean.

So what some are shocked about (children still in some ways not being very responsible at 16) I am less worried about! Because we are all going to have just as many years of being responsible adults as people used to have, and them some!

and I know my kids wouldn't cope with it.
do you honestly believe it's ok for a 16 year old not to cope on their own?

I have employed summer au-pair that were 16 year old! And could barely speak the language.

How old will they be before they can cope?

If you have daughters especially, I find it incredibly dangerous, I would be scared my daughter would be ready to go into any shit relationship to avoid being alone.

And what do you do if you have to leave the house, medical emergency let's say? Ask people to babysit your 16 year old? How embarrassing for the child.

Italianvrey

We don’t live longer, due to modern medicine more children live past the age of 5 years old. This was the stumbling block that kept average age figures much lower.

Go and walk around a graveyard and you’ll still find people if 70/80 years old buried. But also far to many children as infant mortality was high

How on earth is the OP's scenario comparable to a medical emergency? I love how things get broadened out to completely different situations, which are then used to tell you you're wrong.

@Italiangreyhound I think you are right in part but if you are legally an adult at 18 then you need to be equipped for that IMO.

Parents of 16-18 yos are still imposing strict rules suitable for young teens on them such as phones not in their rooms after 9pm so they are not tired the next day, fine - their house their rules but when will they learn that when they have free access to their phones and they are on it half the night then they'll be tired the next day. Surely it's something they need to experience themselves and learn from.

Obviously with being left overnight this is an issue of safety so you need to be sure but in order to get to that point you need to start preparing them well in advance. I know several 15/16 yos whose parents still do everything for them and keep saying, when you're at college I won't be doing it all. To me they should be getting them to do it much younger than that (and picking up the pieces when it goes a bit wrong) not throwing them in at the deep end at 16/17.

@TomBakersScarf it compares because all the putative disasters that could happen with lone offspring home alone could happen whether it’s a medical emergency or, god help them, a party!
Surely to god young adults should be able to function alone in either circumstance.

How on earth is the OP's scenario comparable to a medical emergency?
the end result is the same, but at least they have time to plan, prepare and give instruction to their children.

If you think a 16 year is too young to be left alone, that will apply for every situation - my point being it's ridiculous - again, as long as you live in a safe enough area.

What do you wait for exactly to prepare your kids? that they reach 20? So they are not allowed to go on holiday or to uni? Do they have to get married before they are allowed independence? What's the cut off?

JosefKeller

"do you honestly believe it's ok for a 16 year old not to cope on their own?" Yes.

"I have employed summer au-pair that were 16 year old! And could barely speak the language."

Unless your 16 year old au pair is my daughter, this argument is utterly redundant.

"How old will they be before they can cope?"

I do not know. I think it really depends what you mean by 'cope'. I mean be safe and comfortable and be ready for the responsibility.

When my kids are left alone for the first tome overnight I want it to be when they feel comfortable to do so and not because it is convenient for me.

"If you have daughters especially, I find it incredibly dangerous, I would be scared my daughter would be ready to go into any shit relationship to avoid being alone."

Well, you worry about the things that worry you, and I'll worry about the things that worry me.

"And what do you do if you have to leave the house, medical emergency let's say? Ask people to babysit your 16 year old? How embarrassing for the child."

When and if we have a medical emergency I will deal with it in my way, if I did have a genuine medical emergency I expect my dh would deal with the kids and I'd be worrying about whoever was ill rather than a sense of embarrassment a child had.

I think you are projecting your own concerns onto this and as you don't know my kids your comments aren't particularly relevant for me.

I don't know the OP's kids and they may be fine, I can only answer for my own kids.

I had my oldest at 16..,l

Although on a weird way I admire all the parents on here who have declared a total moratorium on overnight fun until their DCs reach full and complete adulthood

Not sure it helps.. but, I left home at 15. Sounds like you trust them... and if they're comfortable with it and good neighbors on call, I can't see a problem. Have fun!

My mum and dad went to Spain when I was 16 for a week and left me with my 14 year old brother! My gran and auntie only lived round the corner, we were fine!

My DDs are only babies at the minute.....not sure how I would feel about doing it myself!

If at 18 they are going to be able to move out and survive and thrive at uni then preparation is best. That means being able to shop, cook, budget and stay alone. As well as the abilities to be able to get up and get to lectures on time without a parent telling you how much sleep you need, waking you up and dropping you off.

I spent my daughters' lives, from being small, about them having as much independence as they could have (and wanted), appropriate to their age. Confidence comes from achievement. From being able to do things for oneself. If they weren't capable of looking after themselves for less than 24 hours at 16/14yrs I'd be thoroughly ashamed of my parenting.

ivykaty44 Yes, child mortality was bad and that has changed, but I do think we are living longer generally even if some people used to live to a ripe old age. So I don't agree with you but it really doesn't matter either way.
ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

I think you are projecting your own concerns onto this and as you don't know my kids your comments aren't particularly relevant for me.

well, I have met some people who have been raised like your kids, and were finally left alone for the first time. By experience, it's not doing your child any favour whatsoever to keep them as baby when you are supposed to give them the tools to grow.

When my kids are left alone for the first tome overnight I want it to be when they feel comfortable to do so and not because it is convenient for me.
it's for their own sake that they should be more than happy at 16, not yours!

It sounds like you are keeping them as tight as you can. It's not healthy at all. Good luck to them, they must feel suffocated if they cannot be trusted by their own parent.

How many holidays and opportunities will they miss because you don't want to make the ready, or even accept that they are?